12-Hours At Nelson Ledges
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Bill Miller
New member
If you're running a USERA car, does it cost you the $800 for the race entry to the SCCA as well as another $800 to the USERA?
RSTPerformance
New member
We put in a major thought to "slapping" a car together and running the event... Just to run the track. We knew we would most likely break but thought it would be fun to just run the track and where else could you get that amount of track time for the price?
We were gong to register as a USERA Sportsman entrant: $450.00
$450.00/3 Drivers= $150.00 each right?
Raymond
Bill Miller
New member
Raymond,
Check the supps, this is an SCCA race, and the entry fee is $800. That's why I asked the question about the USERA entry fee. I don't think the hosting Region is going to let people enter for essentially half the entry fee that's stated in the supps. Think about it, if you could enter for $450 vs. $800, who wouldn't do that? That's a loophole that I don't see as being there. I suspect that if you want to run for USERA points/contingencies/purse, you're going to have to pony up another $850 for their entry fee.
Check the supps, this is an SCCA race, and the entry fee is $800. That's why I asked the question about the USERA entry fee. I don't think the hosting Region is going to let people enter for essentially half the entry fee that's stated in the supps. Think about it, if you could enter for $450 vs. $800, who wouldn't do that? That's a loophole that I don't see as being there. I suspect that if you want to run for USERA points/contingencies/purse, you're going to have to pony up another $850 for their entry fee.
Ken Grammer
New member
The Nelson Ledges event is a USERA race that is being run in conjunction with the SCCA event. We are being "sanctioned" (insured) by SCCA Neohio Region for the event, so whether you enter with USERA or Neohio you will get credit on your SCCA license for this event.
We are paying Neohio a fee for the event, so YES... you most certainly can enter through USERA for the $450 Sportsman entry and NO... you will not have to pay any additional entry fee to SCCA. (If we decide to take a loss on entry fees to help people race... that's our choice!
)
If anyone reading this decides to enter at the last minute, we will be leaving for Nelson early Thursday morning. If you can let us know today great... Otherwise just just show up at the track and register with Stacey. We won't be turning anyone away who wants to race!
You and all crew/guests will have to be SCCA members for this one though due to the SCCA insurance coverage. If someone on your crew isn't already an SCCA member, temp SCCA memberships will be available at registration.
We are paying Neohio a fee for the event, so YES... you most certainly can enter through USERA for the $450 Sportsman entry and NO... you will not have to pay any additional entry fee to SCCA. (If we decide to take a loss on entry fees to help people race... that's our choice!
)If anyone reading this decides to enter at the last minute, we will be leaving for Nelson early Thursday morning. If you can let us know today great... Otherwise just just show up at the track and register with Stacey. We won't be turning anyone away who wants to race!
You and all crew/guests will have to be SCCA members for this one though due to the SCCA insurance coverage. If someone on your crew isn't already an SCCA member, temp SCCA memberships will be available at registration.
Bill Miller
New member
Ken,
Thanks for the clarification, I stand corrected. Good luck!
Thanks for the clarification, I stand corrected. Good luck!
Ken Grammer
New member
Well, we like crossing boundaries and thinking outside the box! 
We started using this format with joint SCCA/SCCA Pro weekends when I was with SCCA Pro in 2003 and 2004. It was difficult enough when everyone was "all in the family". But shared weekends can REALLY help both groups who are faced with increasing event costs. Many region events are right at the break even point now, so think about how a region could make an event profitable by sharing the weekend with someone like USERA. Or perhaps they can create an open-wheel weekend with one of the pro open wheel series to give the often overlooked open wheel drivers an exciting weekends. By sharing costs and building events that have both a club and "pro" component to them, the events can be more appealing to everyone... including the track.
Even the top series like Champ Car and IMSA are sharing weekends. NASCAR teams with Grand-Am on their Mexico weekends. IRL and Grand-Am share several at places like Homestead and Watkins Glen. But to work for SCCA regions, the regions must learn to be easy to work with and willing to consider other ways of doing things beyond "the SCCA way". I've had really good experiences and some really bad experiences with shared events... and I'm more "SCCA" then most groups!
I would say that we are probably a LONG way away from seeing a joint SCCA/NASA event!
We started using this format with joint SCCA/SCCA Pro weekends when I was with SCCA Pro in 2003 and 2004. It was difficult enough when everyone was "all in the family". But shared weekends can REALLY help both groups who are faced with increasing event costs. Many region events are right at the break even point now, so think about how a region could make an event profitable by sharing the weekend with someone like USERA. Or perhaps they can create an open-wheel weekend with one of the pro open wheel series to give the often overlooked open wheel drivers an exciting weekends. By sharing costs and building events that have both a club and "pro" component to them, the events can be more appealing to everyone... including the track.
Even the top series like Champ Car and IMSA are sharing weekends. NASCAR teams with Grand-Am on their Mexico weekends. IRL and Grand-Am share several at places like Homestead and Watkins Glen. But to work for SCCA regions, the regions must learn to be easy to work with and willing to consider other ways of doing things beyond "the SCCA way". I've had really good experiences and some really bad experiences with shared events... and I'm more "SCCA" then most groups!
I would say that we are probably a LONG way away from seeing a joint SCCA/NASA event!
Never say never.
In the Northwest (you might now, Ken) there's been a "NASA-like" racing club for decades - the International Conference of Sports Car Clubs (ICSCC or Conference). It was started by a splinter group of disgruntled NW Region SCCA members so was born of ill feelings that just kept on being negative, in both directions.
There were always a few who crossed lines and did events with both clubs but at one point, it happened that we had guys in high places in each, who were friendly. Our RE at the time was one of them and he came up with the idea of the Seattle Cup - a championship for classes common to both organizations, at all of one season's races at Seattle International Raceway (now Pacific Raceways).
As I recall, the clubs split the cost of trophies and someone volunteered to keep track of points. Each club did its own deal but the effort generated some more crossover, some friendly rivalry, and a little goodwill. It wasn't a big deal and was, in a way, the best possible compromise. Nobody had to give anything up so there were no real issues to hassle over.
The next logical extension of this would be to have those who want championship points to register and run the required series and sponsor graphic package. I obviously don't know how USERA is chartered but it wouldn't surprise me if there weren't a way to collaborate on an established NASA enduro.
How about the 25 hours at Thunderhill, hmmm??
K
In the Northwest (you might now, Ken) there's been a "NASA-like" racing club for decades - the International Conference of Sports Car Clubs (ICSCC or Conference). It was started by a splinter group of disgruntled NW Region SCCA members so was born of ill feelings that just kept on being negative, in both directions.
There were always a few who crossed lines and did events with both clubs but at one point, it happened that we had guys in high places in each, who were friendly. Our RE at the time was one of them and he came up with the idea of the Seattle Cup - a championship for classes common to both organizations, at all of one season's races at Seattle International Raceway (now Pacific Raceways).
As I recall, the clubs split the cost of trophies and someone volunteered to keep track of points. Each club did its own deal but the effort generated some more crossover, some friendly rivalry, and a little goodwill. It wasn't a big deal and was, in a way, the best possible compromise. Nobody had to give anything up so there were no real issues to hassle over.
The next logical extension of this would be to have those who want championship points to register and run the required series and sponsor graphic package. I obviously don't know how USERA is chartered but it wouldn't surprise me if there weren't a way to collaborate on an established NASA enduro.
How about the 25 hours at Thunderhill, hmmm??
K
Ken Grammer
New member
I am familiar with Conference and agree it does work well there.
We are completely independent. Think a of us as a much smaller version of IMSA and Grand-Am! We have the ability to run with anyone and have talked about some joint events with NASA. It hasn't hurt that I worked for two years with Bryan Cohn while at SCCA Pro and Stacey and I consider him a very good friend.
We look at our event weekends based on what makes sense for the demographics of our drivers. For example, we started off shating a weekend with American GT. Our next event was run in conjuction with CASC at Mosport. Nashville was run in conjunction with the V8 Supercar Series. Next up are a pair of joint weekends with SCCA (Nelson and Portland). Then we have an event with Open Track Racing at Willow Springs. Lime Rock is run with Nascar and VIR with Grand-Am.
We talked to NASA about sharing a couple of event weekends (Road Atlanta, Pocono, etc.) but nothing fit everyone's schedule. Perhaps in 2007?
Personally, I would love to be paired with Nationals and offer an SCCA National and USERA Enduro joint weekend. Have the National run first, and the USERA Enduro run last thing Sunday afternoon. Drivers could run the National AND pick up money running our event!
Oh... and I would love to be part of the 25 Hours!
We are completely independent. Think a of us as a much smaller version of IMSA and Grand-Am!
We have the ability to run with anyone and have talked about some joint events with NASA. It hasn't hurt that I worked for two years with Bryan Cohn while at SCCA Pro and Stacey and I consider him a very good friend.We look at our event weekends based on what makes sense for the demographics of our drivers. For example, we started off shating a weekend with American GT. Our next event was run in conjuction with CASC at Mosport. Nashville was run in conjunction with the V8 Supercar Series. Next up are a pair of joint weekends with SCCA (Nelson and Portland). Then we have an event with Open Track Racing at Willow Springs. Lime Rock is run with Nascar and VIR with Grand-Am.
We talked to NASA about sharing a couple of event weekends (Road Atlanta, Pocono, etc.) but nothing fit everyone's schedule. Perhaps in 2007?
Personally, I would love to be paired with Nationals and offer an SCCA National and USERA Enduro joint weekend. Have the National run first, and the USERA Enduro run last thing Sunday afternoon. Drivers could run the National AND pick up money running our event!
Oh... and I would love to be part of the 25 Hours!
Bill Miller
New member
Is that right, there were only 20 cars???
Ken Grammer
New member
There were four USERA cars and 16 club cars that started the race. It was very light turnout and a great race was missed if you weren't there. The race started in the rain, but once that cleared out the weather was very nice into the night portion of the race.
At the end of the evening, Scott Lane made an announcement that this wasgoing to be the last 12 Hour race at Nelson. He followed that quickly with an announcement that the 24 Hours of Nelson Ledges would be returning next year.
Our thanks to Neohio and the Lane's for allowing us to be part of the event. Our staff and teams had a great time and can't wait for run more long events in 2007!
At the end of the evening, Scott Lane made an announcement that this wasgoing to be the last 12 Hour race at Nelson. He followed that quickly with an announcement that the 24 Hours of Nelson Ledges would be returning next year.
Our thanks to Neohio and the Lane's for allowing us to be part of the event. Our staff and teams had a great time and can't wait for run more long events in 2007!
Bill Miller
New member
That's great news, the return of the Longest Day!!!
Our weekend went quite well - despite the announcers confusing SCCA and USERA teams (which use slightly different refueling rules), the RC Imports Mercedes Benz took the Overall win for SCCA, 1 lap behind the USERA winning SM.
Congrats to the winning drivers - Rick Ellinger and Chuck Hemmingson
Thanks also to Peter, his son (whose name eludes me b/c I'm feeble minded) and Mark for their invaluable assistance during the race!!
Also, it was great to see Brad and Deb who have been MIA from the MARRS series this season.
Congrats to the winning drivers - Rick Ellinger and Chuck Hemmingson
Thanks also to Peter, his son (whose name eludes me b/c I'm feeble minded) and Mark for their invaluable assistance during the race!!
Also, it was great to see Brad and Deb who have been MIA from the MARRS series this season.
Ken Grammer
New member
The race between the RC Imports #82 car and Puskar Motorsports #26 during the last two hours was fun to watch. I know that Chris Puskar was in the 26 car at the end and recall someone saying Chuck Hemmingson was in the 82 at the end. Both drivers drove a great race
USERA did have a different pitstop rule since we didn't have the mandatory two minute pit stop, we did adhere to the "driver out" rule required by SCCA, which effectively made all stops at least two minutes anyway until the last two hours when both groups could make unlimited stops. I looked at pit stop times for both teams and even with USERA not having the two minute pit stop requirement, the times on the 26 car were all over two minutes (and virtually the same as the 82 car), plus the 26 car made nearly twice as many stops due to larger fuel tank in the Mercedes.
RC Imports need to bring an IT car to VIR during the Grand-Am weekend for a rematch!
The battle between the 26 and 82 for "overall" was fun to watch. I thought the 82 had the 26 until that last pit stop (did I hear that was for oil?).
Good race guys!
USERA did have a different pitstop rule since we didn't have the mandatory two minute pit stop, we did adhere to the "driver out" rule required by SCCA, which effectively made all stops at least two minutes anyway until the last two hours when both groups could make unlimited stops. I looked at pit stop times for both teams and even with USERA not having the two minute pit stop requirement, the times on the 26 car were all over two minutes (and virtually the same as the 82 car), plus the 26 car made nearly twice as many stops due to larger fuel tank in the Mercedes.
RC Imports need to bring an IT car to VIR during the Grand-Am weekend for a rematch!
The battle between the 26 and 82 for "overall" was fun to watch. I thought the 82 had the 26 until that last pit stop (did I hear that was for oil?).
Good race guys!