So what did you think....they stopped a sports car race for rain....smells like NASCAR. AND does anyone else think if it was not for the shorter distance there would be no way for the any DP car to finish in the top spot, there would be a GT Porsche as overall winner again this year...that winning DP car sounded pretty sick on the last lap. Tires exploding all over the place. I think they have some work to do. I guess nothing will change Grand-AM got what they wanted a overall win for their prototype class....They most likely don't care about what happens in the lower classes...they are trying to kill them off anyway, they might try to slow them down. They say too many classes is too confusing.
17hrs or so of Daytona
- Thread starter cherokee
- Start date
I for one was also a bit surprised at first that the race was stopped for rain. Then I looked and listened and realized that it was not the worst move the event director could do. See, it is also a matter of safety. Have you driven in the rain on slicks or for that matter racing rain tires-thru puddles and tried to transition on/off the 31 degree banking of Daytona? It is not pretty if you bauble a DP car as Robbie G. found out. Several others also discovered that these brute cars are tough to handle in the rain. The Porsche parade was not exempt either-and they are famous for being able to perform flawlessly in the wet. THis race is not billed as LeMans or even a race at the Ring or Spa where the weather is very different along with the track design. I am not a really good wet track driver, so I try my best to stay out of trouble.
The event is what it was billed to be. I would have liked to see the Crawford finish as it was doing so well with drivers who rarely turn right on a track (except their ventures at GoKarts <G>). Should the Porsche win-maybe. Buckler proved that a little car with real money can win. Should a prototype win-why not; they are bigger, badder and very technical. I personally have little to say about the Audi parade either-that to me was a money thing and not talent overcoming adversity. Hooray for Tony S. for his attempt to finish in a severely wounded car. Hooray for the winner for overcoming adversity without completely replacing the rear clip of the car, ala Audi. Oh, and hooray for the Porsche drivers who simply kept on going. The Corvette/Ferrari parade was admirable in its lack of contenders-very boring show this time.
Props to Speed Channel for actually covering the event as they did. Did they in any way dictate the outcome-NO WAY. They soldiered on along with the cars. Can this series survive-absolutely. Look at the outcome: Goliath wins but is closely followed by 2 Davids-pretty neat. To answer the question-NO it should have continued under the Caution Flag as the entire course had serious issues with the abnormal deluge. That way, if a car is going to break it will simply from running slow and possibly overheating or something else goes wrong.
That's my opinion.
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Grandpa's toys-modded suspensions and a few other tweaks
'89 CRX Si-SCCA ITA #99
'99 Prelude=a sweet song
'03 Dodge Dakota Club Cab V8-Patriot Blue gonna tow
[This message has been edited by jc836 (edited February 02, 2004).]
The event is what it was billed to be. I would have liked to see the Crawford finish as it was doing so well with drivers who rarely turn right on a track (except their ventures at GoKarts <G>). Should the Porsche win-maybe. Buckler proved that a little car with real money can win. Should a prototype win-why not; they are bigger, badder and very technical. I personally have little to say about the Audi parade either-that to me was a money thing and not talent overcoming adversity. Hooray for Tony S. for his attempt to finish in a severely wounded car. Hooray for the winner for overcoming adversity without completely replacing the rear clip of the car, ala Audi. Oh, and hooray for the Porsche drivers who simply kept on going. The Corvette/Ferrari parade was admirable in its lack of contenders-very boring show this time.
Props to Speed Channel for actually covering the event as they did. Did they in any way dictate the outcome-NO WAY. They soldiered on along with the cars. Can this series survive-absolutely. Look at the outcome: Goliath wins but is closely followed by 2 Davids-pretty neat. To answer the question-NO it should have continued under the Caution Flag as the entire course had serious issues with the abnormal deluge. That way, if a car is going to break it will simply from running slow and possibly overheating or something else goes wrong.
That's my opinion.
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Grandpa's toys-modded suspensions and a few other tweaks
'89 CRX Si-SCCA ITA #99
'99 Prelude=a sweet song
'03 Dodge Dakota Club Cab V8-Patriot Blue gonna tow
[This message has been edited by jc836 (edited February 02, 2004).]
planet6racing
New member
Cherokee: Could you use punctuation when posting? Your post gave me a serious headache. We won't grade you on your grammar, but it would help to understand you a little better.
As for the race (from what I have seen via my VCR recordings (they make a 5 disc DVD changer, why can't they make a 3 Tape VCR so people can record 18 hours worth of stuff?)), it looked really wet and I know visibility was an issue. Imagine running behing someone in a Florida deluge with you "wipers" on (they're an inch off the windshield at speed) in the dark with just the track lights/car lights illuminating the way. Yeah, no thanks. I'd pull in and let someone else do it. I do agree it could have been run under caution or 3 hours tacked onto the end of it all (probably not possible for the teams, but...). Overall, it seemed pretty good, especially the GT race. 6 seconds after 24 hours? 2nd place closing on first at a rate of 4 seconds per lap? If there were only 5 more minutes...
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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com
As for the race (from what I have seen via my VCR recordings (they make a 5 disc DVD changer, why can't they make a 3 Tape VCR so people can record 18 hours worth of stuff?)), it looked really wet and I know visibility was an issue. Imagine running behing someone in a Florida deluge with you "wipers" on (they're an inch off the windshield at speed) in the dark with just the track lights/car lights illuminating the way. Yeah, no thanks. I'd pull in and let someone else do it. I do agree it could have been run under caution or 3 hours tacked onto the end of it all (probably not possible for the teams, but...). Overall, it seemed pretty good, especially the GT race. 6 seconds after 24 hours? 2nd place closing on first at a rate of 4 seconds per lap? If there were only 5 more minutes...
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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com
Sorry, about the grammer..it's early and my eyes are a little fuzzy. I was not knocking the event, I have just never seen a sports car race red flagged for rain. I ran my first race and my school in sleet and snow you adapt. Maybe if 50% of the drivers interviewed did not "only drive in the rain to the grocery store" it would have not stopped...we will never know. The cars should have kept going even under a safety car...they should have been on the track for 24 hrs, and if the race had run for 24 hours I would bet money that a GT car would have won overall....and I think that would be unacceptable. The TV coverage was great (I love DVR).
I fancy myself to be a pretty good wet driver, having done essentially a full season of schools and regionals before ever seeing a dry track. I would love to adhere to the sports car racing ideal of "whatever comes" but in reality, that just isn't sensible.
The Daytona 24 isn't the Mille Miglia or some other race against death and, regardless of driver skill and car preparation, there are simply conditions that make 185mph on steep banks a needless risk. At some point, the amount of water dictates slowing and - at that same point - physics won't keep the cars on the banking: They just slide down to the apron!
As far as the intimation that the red flags were part of a conspiracy to hand the prototypes a win? Pshaw - sounds like Production board ranting. A myriad of classes IS confusing to spectators. David Hobbs - aguably one of the best sportscar/GT drivers of the last 30 years - had scathing things to say about the management of 'professional' endurance racing in the US: "...rich team owners who can't see past the next short term deal" is right and the DP/GT concept is a powerful remedy to years of mismanagement.
I was THRILLED that the 24 was as well subscribed as it was. The grid was closer than it has been in years and the quality was there. There were more than twice the number of DP cars there as last year and there are more in the wings. How many chassis/engine combinations were represented? How long will it be before a Ferrari powerplant or the new Jag TransAm engine finds its way into one?
If it "smells like NASCAR," I'm willing to breathe it in...
K
[This message has been edited by Knestis (edited February 02, 2004).]
The Daytona 24 isn't the Mille Miglia or some other race against death and, regardless of driver skill and car preparation, there are simply conditions that make 185mph on steep banks a needless risk. At some point, the amount of water dictates slowing and - at that same point - physics won't keep the cars on the banking: They just slide down to the apron!
As far as the intimation that the red flags were part of a conspiracy to hand the prototypes a win? Pshaw - sounds like Production board ranting. A myriad of classes IS confusing to spectators. David Hobbs - aguably one of the best sportscar/GT drivers of the last 30 years - had scathing things to say about the management of 'professional' endurance racing in the US: "...rich team owners who can't see past the next short term deal" is right and the DP/GT concept is a powerful remedy to years of mismanagement.
I was THRILLED that the 24 was as well subscribed as it was. The grid was closer than it has been in years and the quality was there. There were more than twice the number of DP cars there as last year and there are more in the wings. How many chassis/engine combinations were represented? How long will it be before a Ferrari powerplant or the new Jag TransAm engine finds its way into one?
If it "smells like NASCAR," I'm willing to breathe it in...
K
[This message has been edited by Knestis (edited February 02, 2004).]
I just got back from Daytona, after dropping off at the Orlando airport friends who couldn't get out last night (up at 3:30 am).
Hey Bill, we missed you!! Did you end up taking that long trip?
The 54 car was sounding sick at the end, and the GT guys just kept cruising. Another hour would have been interesting.
Ah yes, the rain. I was somewhat surprised when they stopped the race, but I must admit that it was coming down very hard Sunday morning and ponding everywhere.
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Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com
Hey Bill, we missed you!! Did you end up taking that long trip?
The 54 car was sounding sick at the end, and the GT guys just kept cruising. Another hour would have been interesting.
Ah yes, the rain. I was somewhat surprised when they stopped the race, but I must admit that it was coming down very hard Sunday morning and ponding everywhere.
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Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com
planet6racing
New member
I didn't have to take the long trip (Germany) but I was in California until Sunday. Luckily I remembered to program the VCR before I left!
I missed the scene with a driver wearing an Isaac. Did this really happen?
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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com
I missed the scene with a driver wearing an Isaac. Did this really happen?
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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com
planet6racing
New member
I couldn't tell if it was sick or just hitting a lot of puddles with slicks. Either way, I would have been happy I had my Isaac device on because his head kept snapping forward...
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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com
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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com
According to Speed.com, Goodyear was running out of raintires plus the various safety concerns were the reasons for the red flag. I too was trying to tape the end of the race(it was my birthday and my wife took me to Gatlinburg for "celebration") and my tape ran out with 45+ min remaining. So I missed the good stuff.
I can say from my Longest Day of Nelson experiences that I would prefer the red flag to following the pace car around for hrs at time in the rain while in a race car. A lot safer for all concerned.
I can say from my Longest Day of Nelson experiences that I would prefer the red flag to following the pace car around for hrs at time in the rain while in a race car. A lot safer for all concerned.
Glad you didn't have to make that trek--although the beer is excellent.
The Wallace/Stewart et al team may have been using Isaac systems, but my best guess is that it was a Hutchens device. We do not have Wallace and Stewart listed as customers, although lately we have noticed some prep shops ordering multiple Isaac systems on behalf of customers, so the team may have done the same.
It was news last summer when Stewart switched from the Hutchens to the HANS, but the word is that he did not like it at all, so he has probably dumped the HANS and gone back to the Hutchens.
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Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com
steve s
New member
if you ever drive daytona in the rain you will respect the decision the officials made. the S.E. div. drivers will vouch for that.i am sure. the back straight floods and you can't keep the car on the bank behind the pace car. also the flat apron under the bank is flooded also.from a driver's & safety perspective great move by the official.
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steve saney
it-7 /it-a #34
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steve saney
it-7 /it-a #34
I agree completely Steve. Remember the rain at the SARRC race 2 years ago, coming thru the first horseshoe and we couldn't even see the kink. Daytona is scary enough a speed in the dry. In the wet, forgetaboutit. Good job to the powers to be to forsake the show for the safety of the drivers and workers. Also, great job again by our CFR corner workers. Can't say enough good things about the job they do at a pro race or just watching over us "unpaid" drivers.
Mike Cox
#37 IT7
Mike Cox
#37 IT7
Well most everyone agrees that to stop the race was a good idea. Just keep this all in mind when you have full corse yellows for hot dog rappers on the track and "lucky dogs" getting their lap back....it all makes for a better "show". If you want sports entertainment thats fine...me I am going to ALMS where real road racing is.
Thanks Bob, I thought that was the case. BTW, is the Simpson D-Cel allowed in any of the NASCAR family events?
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Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com
Greg,
As close as the D-Cel is to the Hutchens Device one might think it is approved, but I honestly do not know if the D-Cel has been given specific approval.
Word I got about the Hutchens Device at the Daytona 24 race is that a majority of the drivers were wearing it improperly and it would have offered little to no protection. Folks need to remember to read the instructions on all devices they purchase for use be it helmet restraint devices, harnesses, seats and so on.
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Bob Pinkowski
Atlanta Region SCCA
OPM Autosports
ITS Honda Prelude (for sale)
As close as the D-Cel is to the Hutchens Device one might think it is approved, but I honestly do not know if the D-Cel has been given specific approval.
Word I got about the Hutchens Device at the Daytona 24 race is that a majority of the drivers were wearing it improperly and it would have offered little to no protection. Folks need to remember to read the instructions on all devices they purchase for use be it helmet restraint devices, harnesses, seats and so on.
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Bob Pinkowski
Atlanta Region SCCA
OPM Autosports
ITS Honda Prelude (for sale)
I work for Bell Motorsports (the overall winner of DP) The reason the race was red flagged was because all of the tire manufactures ran out of rain tires for the competitors. Goodyear, Dunlop, and Hoosier were OUT of rain tires. Teams were having to purchase used rains from other teams that dropped out of the race. Besides the tire situation, track conditions were horrible and during the red flag, it was raining so hard on pit road, crews could hardly see. Grand-am made a wise call for safety reasons as well as supporting their tire companies. With 55 cars requiring at least 18 sets of rain tires each... there was a severe deficit of rains.