AC systems

Ron Earp

Ron Earp

Administrator
And interesting line in the IT rules:

9.1.3e
Air conditioning systems may be removed in whole or in part.

"Air conditioning systems" isn't defined in the GCR Glossary. A look through the Ford Factory Shop manual defines AC as:

acevaphousing.jpg



Over and over in the manual. Lots of pictures of the AC housing, complete AC system, internal AC system, etc. and they all reference this:

ac.jpg


And then of course you have 9.1.3g which states:
Engine coolant fluid, coolant/heater hoses and clamps may
be substituted. Heater hoses may be plugged. Heater water
control valve(s) may be added or substituted. Heater core and
hoses shall not be removed.

Indicating the heater core MUST remain. Along with hoses, but I haven't seen a car with heater hoses in a long time.

I think one could make an argument that you could stick my heater core through the firewall and hang it in space, with hoses, and be legal. And, might could argue you could toss the entire thing, heater core too, based on 9.1.3d because evidence can be provided that the heater core is included in the AC system assembly according to factory docs.

In the end I will do neither and keep the system. The box weighs something like 3.X lbs, the motor is 3.5 lbs, and the heater core is around 2.5 lbs. That isn't a lot of weight to have a working defroster.
 
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I always laugh when guys put the car on the trailer when it rains. They qualified, they are out the money, but they say their windshield fogs. yea, no heater lines will do that. I get they want to save weight, but ALL of them aren't Will Power, and I bet NONE of them can tell the difference if 10 pounds is added to the car ....it's just a mental thing for them. "Real race cars don't have heater cores".
Well, my shelf has a bunch of trophies I won in the rain in my what must be fake race car, LOL. The one that has a fully operating heater core, that not only keeps my windshield clear in the rain, but acts like an addition radiator should I need supplementary cooling, if the radiator gets blocked with paper or something in the race.
 
lateapex911 said:
I always laugh when guys put the car on the trailer when it rains. They qualified, they are out the money, but they say their windshield fogs. yea, no heater lines will do that. .
Click to expand...

I can see that happening. I raced in the rain twice with my old Z. It had the heater core, but a seized blower motor and no lines to the core. I couldn't see anything during the race, nada.

However, there might be a much more space efficient and lighter way to add a heated blower. Could be somebody makes a bilge pump style heater with heated coils in it, or something similar.
 
Ron Earp said:
However, there might be a much more space efficient and lighter way to add a heated blower. Could be somebody makes a bilge pump style heater with heated coils in it, or something similar.
Click to expand...

And exactly where is that allowance, in the ITCS? :)
 
Gary L said:
And exactly where is that allowance, in the ITCS? :)
Click to expand...

Well, along the same vein where in the ITCS is the allowance for a cool suit?

As for the heater:

Ducting may be added to provide fresh air to the driver/
passenger compartment. This ducting shall be located in the
driver and/or passenger window area, with no modifications
to the bodywork. Only the cooling duct is permitted in the
window area. It is not permitted to otherwise fill in the window
area. The complete duct assembly in the plane of the window
shall be no larger than 100 square inches.
​
I suppose you could argue that your duct comes in feeds a heater/blower and it is delivering air to the driver/passenger compartment.
 
I pull the AC parts out of the box, and stuff the heater core back in. (For the It cars.)
For the Chumpcars, I draw warm air off of the floor behind the header, duct it straight onto the glass.
Just a piece of vertcially mounted dryer vent hose ,with the bottom at the floor , maybe 1in gap to the floor works very well. Hot air rises, etc.
 
Ron, Didn't you say you had documentation that some of these cars you could UD/BD too had no AC? IIRC then THAT is the heater core you could go with.

My strategy on this is simple. Take the AC stuff out of the heater core, make sure the heater hoses are attached and call it a day. The AC is part of the heater core, not vice versa. The core is ALWAYS in there, AC or no AC.
 
Andy Bettencourt said:
My strategy on this is simple. Take the AC stuff out of the heater core, make sure the heater hoses are attached and call it a day. The AC is part of the heater core, not vice versa. The core is ALWAYS in there, AC or no AC.
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I believe that bold section is up for debate and interpretation. While the heater core is always in the car as delivered by Ford, rule:

9.1.3e
Air conditioning systems may be removed in whole or in part.
​
And Ford considers in their factory shop manual that the heater core is part of the Air Conditioning system, meaning heating and cooling, i.e. conditioning of air. In fact, there is a sentence in the manual that states "The air conditioning system is composed of the following main components: refrigerant compressor, evaporator, condenser, drier, engine coolant heat exchanger, ..." and a few other items I can't remember.
 
Flyinglizard said:
I pull the AC parts out of the box, and stuff the heater core back in. (For the It cars.)
For the Chumpcars, I draw warm air off of the floor behind the header, duct it straight onto the glass.
Just a piece of vertcially mounted dryer vent hose ,with the bottom at the floor , maybe 1in gap to the floor works very well. Hot air rises, etc.
Click to expand...



That's a really good idea. Simple and lightweight. :happy204:
 
I agree with Ron. The rule says the A/C system can come out. The heater core must stay. The book says that big ass thing is an a/c system. It can come out. But, per the rule, the heater core must stay.

I do agree with Gary that there is no allowance for adding a fan, although that type of reading of the rules gets rid of cool systems, radios, etc.
 
JeffYoung said:
I agree with Ron. The rule says the A/C system can come out. The heater core must stay. The book says that big ass thing is an a/c system. It can come out. But, per the rule, the heater core must stay.

I do agree with Gary that there is no allowance for adding a fan, although that type of reading of the rules gets rid of cool systems, radios, etc.
Click to expand...

Sure that is what Ron is saying?
 
Flyinglizard said:
I pull the AC parts out of the box, and stuff the heater core back in. (For the It cars.)
For the Chumpcars, I draw warm air off of the floor behind the header, duct it straight onto the glass.
Just a piece of vertcially mounted dryer vent hose ,with the bottom at the floor , maybe 1in gap to the floor works very well. Hot air rises, etc.
Click to expand...

In my car, that's an ideal way to fog the windshield, LOL. Of course, in my car I have two streams of water flowing into the car off the windshield at 100MPH, and it forms puddles in the footwells. (I've seen breakers on the pass side!) Since my rotary has exhaust temps in the 1600 range 18" off the port, and the pipes must be long for some noise attenuation and to house multiple mufflers, they of course travel under floor, which heats, errr boils, that water, making copious amounts of steam.

My stock functioning blower keeps my windshield clear though.
 
We went with a non-AC HVAC box in the Golf but discovered that the fan motor (which died recently) is as rare as hen's teeth and costs a bundle. I think that Andy's interpretation/practice is most consistent with the various - and potentially conflicting - rules.

KK
 
JeffYoung said:
I do agree with Gary that there is no allowance for adding a fan, although that type of reading of the rules gets rid of cool systems, radios, etc.
Click to expand...

Apparently not radios.

9.3.1.j

Audio systems may be removed in their entirety. Two-way
radios are permitted.
​
 
When in doubt, read the GCR. Many things are specified for all cars, not just IT.:rolleyes:

9.3.14. COOL SUITS​
Cool suits are allowed in all classes. Water tank mounts shall be of a safe​
and secure design.
 
I am of the supplementary radiator clan, and I'll be using it this weekend, I'm sure. Its over 30*C in the forecast, and even with the biggest rad I could fit in the Neon, it never runs lower than 105*.
 
Ron Earp said:
And interesting line in the IT rules:

9.1.3e
Air conditioning systems may be removed in whole or in part.

"Air conditioning systems" isn't defined in the GCR Glossary. A look through the Ford Factory Shop manual defines AC as:

acevaphousing.jpg



Over and over in the manual. Lots of pictures of the AC housing, complete AC system, internal AC system, etc. and they all reference this:

ac.jpg


And then of course you have 9.1.3g which states:
Engine coolant fluid, coolant/heater hoses and clamps may
be substituted. Heater hoses may be plugged. Heater water
control valve(s) may be added or substituted. Heater core and
hoses shall not be removed.

Indicating the heater core MUST remain. Along with hoses, but I haven't seen a car with heater hoses in a long time.

I think one could make an argument that you could stick my heater core through the firewall and hang it in space, with hoses, and be legal. And, might could argue you could toss the entire thing, heater core too, based on 9.1.3d because evidence can be provided that the heater core is included in the AC system assembly according to factory docs.

In the end I will do neither and keep the system. The box weighs something like 3.X lbs, the motor is 3.5 lbs, and the heater core is around 2.5 lbs. That isn't a lot of weight to have a working defroster.
Click to expand...

That's what I did. My car was never avaliable without AC, so the box and fan are part of the AC system. Per the rules I installed the heater core and a couple of the heater hoses. It's easy to keep the box if you already have it. But if you're starting with a race car where it's already removed then, just finding the heater core is way easier. As for having to deal with defrosting, that's for places that see precipitation. We're the second driest place in the world, behide the Attacama.
 
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