Are 5 lug and suspension arm swaps legal?
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I am talking specifically about 92-95 civic with rear drums.
The 5 lug conversion is done by using type R front knuckle/hubs and rear type R trailing arms and hubs.
I think the above is a no go now that I think about it, since the type R is not allowed in the class.
The Si model came with rear disks so I will just swap that rear disk in.
The steering rack swap is the 94-01 integra (DC) steering rack which bolts right into the 92-95 civic (EG). The EG and DC are the same car. Still not sure I am going to do the steering rack swap as the EG rack is already manual vs the DC being power. Lot of track DC guys actually put the EG rack in.
The 5 lug conversion is done by using type R front knuckle/hubs and rear type R trailing arms and hubs.
I think the above is a no go now that I think about it, since the type R is not allowed in the class.
The Si model came with rear disks so I will just swap that rear disk in.
The steering rack swap is the 94-01 integra (DC) steering rack which bolts right into the 92-95 civic (EG). The EG and DC are the same car. Still not sure I am going to do the steering rack swap as the EG rack is already manual vs the DC being power. Lot of track DC guys actually put the EG rack in.
The Type R chassis is allowed in STL but it's not a Civic. IMO, putting Integra parts on a Civic is non-compliant to the regs.
We had a situation appear in Fastrack within the last month or two, where the CRB had a discussion regarding swapping parts between different versions of Miatae (NA vs N
. The CRB published in Fastrack that the NA and NB versions of the Miata are considered separate chassis, thus you cannot swap parts between them.That statement has been subsequently retracted so this situation has not been clarified. However, this Miata example should give you a general idea of how the CRB would respond if they were asked for specific clarification.
In my opinion, and it's just one club member's opinion and is no way an official one, it's safe to swap parts within the same manufacturer chassis codes (EG, DC, EF, etc). Outside of that is up to your personal interpretation -- and risk.
- GA
Greg, wasn't that "clarification" since retracted about swaps between the 99-00 NB and 01-05 NB Miatas which the rest of the world considers to be the same cars with different engines and some minor updates to trim and lights?
I agree with tGA, though, a part is either stock (or stock equivalent) or not stock, and only stock is allowed unless permitted to be changed (I.e. brakes).
BUT given the lack of replacement hub availability on so many cars it might be nice to have some sort of allowance for better than stock or at least similar to stock matches, as long as you keep the stock knuckle and bearing OD, who really cares?
I agree with tGA, though, a part is either stock (or stock equivalent) or not stock, and only stock is allowed unless permitted to be changed (I.e. brakes).
BUT given the lack of replacement hub availability on so many cars it might be nice to have some sort of allowance for better than stock or at least similar to stock matches, as long as you keep the stock knuckle and bearing OD, who really cares?
Yep, I think you're right. Which is why it was that much more confusing...
I suggest that idea is within the general philosophy of the class, as long as modifications to the car are not required to make it fit. If you (or anyone else) can come up with some non-intortuable verbiage, submit it for consideration. Make it snappy if you're looking for implementation for 2014...
- GA
I drive a Toyota, an old Toyota. STL is not in my immediate future. I do have some other ideas for STL options though
Ok this leads me to my next question.
2. Rotors -
Any 1- or 2-piece ferrous rotors that do not exceed 290mm
in diameter and 28mm in thickness are permitted.
3. Calipers - Any 4-piston or fewer calipers may be used.
So if we can run any 4 piston caliper and ferrous rotors up to 290x28 which is most certainly bigger than what most of the car in this class come stock with. And you can't go with OEM (not same model) knuckles/hubs to get the bigger brakes to fit OE.
Are we then allowed to run adapter brackets that come with every big brake kit on the market to get the caliper in the proper position.
I still think the EG and DC2 are the same, you can mix and match parts between them like legos.
Wait so the integra type R is legal as long as you don't use it's engine...
This is the coolest class in scca, but damn is it confusing.
2. Rotors -
Any 1- or 2-piece ferrous rotors that do not exceed 290mm
in diameter and 28mm in thickness are permitted.
3. Calipers - Any 4-piston or fewer calipers may be used.
So if we can run any 4 piston caliper and ferrous rotors up to 290x28 which is most certainly bigger than what most of the car in this class come stock with. And you can't go with OEM (not same model) knuckles/hubs to get the bigger brakes to fit OE.
Are we then allowed to run adapter brackets that come with every big brake kit on the market to get the caliper in the proper position.
I still think the EG and DC2 are the same, you can mix and match parts between them like legos.
Wait so the integra type R is legal as long as you don't use it's engine...
This is the coolest class in scca, but damn is it confusing.
Sure, as long as you don't modify any parts on the car to install them. They're part of your alternate brake design.
Concur. We're doing what we can, when we can, to clarify it.
- GA
mossaidis
New member
I think your safest option for meeting GCR STL rules here to build yourself a 94 Civic EX/Si with ABS. It will still be 4 lug, but you will have a larger front knuckle (which BTW is the same as any non-Type R DC models), larger bearings, larger rotors/calipers (upgrade from 9.3" to 10.2") or get the Wilwood upgrade kit (11" or ~12.2") which needs the larger knuckle from the ABS model, larger brake booster and larger master cylinder. As tGA says, the Si/EX models came with disc rears, so that is an easier conversion.
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mossaidis
New member
PS. There are bolt-on calipers from Wilwood now for the Si/EX models with ABS knuckles. Look up Forged DPHA.
http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/Br...=Honda&model=Civic&option=Hatchback+SI&whl=15
http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/Br...=Honda&model=Civic&option=Hatchback+SI&whl=15
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IMO, if they are the same chassis designation (such as DA, DC, EF, EG, etc) then I suggest you're safe. If anything outside of that then you're on your own. - GA
mossaidis
New member
That would be VERY SAFE decision, since in fact, you are not building a new model, just making an existing one. Other than the sunroof brackets and VIN, take a CX put the Si/EX rear suspesion, the Si/EX ABS front suspension and brake system, less motor and you have a Si/EX with ABS roller. Boom!
Now mind you, tGA is stating his opinion about mindlessly swapping parts from a DC to EG chassis. Only a protest or a technical clarification request would put that decision to rest. I do know that an EG Civic is NOT as wide as DC2 Integra even though the suspension are similar.
PS. Though, I am also known to be a "little" anal sometimes. Plus tGA is on the STAC... cough.
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