Blue flags

L

LMcB

New member
How important are blue flags to you? Do they really help you? To us flaggers, blue flagging is very technical and challenging and extremely fun once the skill is acquired. But I am curious how important blue flags are to the drivers. (Not trying to beat a dead horse, I know it's an ongoing discussion....)

We had a blast at NHMS this weekend, our first time back in a couple of years and our first time at a Rational. Loved the format. A lot of really good, clean racing. Great blue flagging (for me, anyway)...hope it helped!

Denise it was great to see you out there in your new car. Hope you make it down to VIR, you will love it.
 
Hi Leigh,

What station were you at?

The blue flags are sooooooooo important!! Both from a leader perspective when you're lapping cars and from not getting caught off guard when a faster car is coming through.

To me, when fighting for the lead and coming up on a lapped car it becomes a big safety concern. When running nose to tail for first/second/third, the moves become a "little" more aggressive to get by the lapped car. They need to know what's coming.

I see a lot of inconsistency with their use. I have heard some workers say they don’t like to use them. I’ve also seen them over used…….. like showing it to the car that’s in first place. Yup, I KNOW everyone is trying to pass me!! LOL

Thanks for your help this weekend!!
 
I can see this both ways.
I agree that blue flags are critical especially if you are coming up to lap somebody..that the car about to be overtaken is aware of his surroundings. BUT in racing, it is critical be aware of your surroundings reguardless. You should know when there is a faster car approching, etc.

So in a summary, blue flags are important to our sport..but drivers should always be aware of thats going on:023:
 
LMcB said:
How important are blue flags to you? Do they really help you? To us flaggers, blue flagging is very technical and challenging and extremely fun once the skill is acquired. But I am curious how important blue flags are to the drivers. (Not trying to beat a dead horse, I know it's an ongoing discussion....)


.
Click to expand...

You mean the flag that's for the other guy, certainly not me, right?

Seriously - if the blue flag is shown properly it can be a big help - but many times I've been coming up on slower traffic with no cars behind me, passed the slower car and then had the blue flag shown to me. (Is there another faster car comeing through behind us? Nope Is that flag meant for the other car i just passed? Hmmm. Does the flagger think the car I just passed is he one catching me? Hmmm. ) So yeah showing the blue falg distinctly at the car ( when possible) so it's clear who it's intended for can be really helpful.
 
Not very important to me as I watch my mirrors. However, I always nod my head to the flagger to show that I have seen the blue flag.
 
JLawton said:
Hi Leigh,

What station were you at?

The blue flags are sooooooooo important!! Both from a leader perspective when you're lapping cars and from not getting caught off guard when a faster car is coming through.

To me, when fighting for the lead and coming up on a lapped car it becomes a big safety concern. When running nose to tail for first/second/third, the moves become a "little" more aggressive to get by the lapped car. They need to know what's coming.
Click to expand...

I was at Station 5 on Sat and Station 10 on Sunday (but did not blue flag the ITA race). I LOVE to blue flag at Station 10 (I may be the only one) because I can watch the cars going up the hill from 3, know what I am looking for coming down the hill from 9...I know you're looking right at me, I can show the flag early, and I can get right in your face. Very fun.

I know that drivers are always (supposed to be) looking in their mirrors and be aware of their surroundings, but in a race with large speed differentials, the leaders can overtake the backmarkers in a hurry so I like to think my blue flag helps even those drivers who are paying attention to their mirrors.

It is surprisingly hard to learn how to be a good blue flagger, so it's not surprising that you see blue flags being given to the wrong cars or too late or not at all. Unfortunately, as a driver you then don't really know which blue flags to "believe". I realize blue flags are just advisory flags, but just as with command flags, I think it's important that drivers can be confident that we mean the same thing EVERY TIME we show the flag and not have to mentally run through a list of possibilities of what the flag might mean (which means, quite understandably, that the flag will be probably be ignored). Showing a blue flag to cars racing for position is definitely a no-no, although I think most of us will blue flag a leader who spins on the first lap (looking at you Greg Amy) until he gets back up towards the front (still looking at you Greg Amy....great race!). And that would be more for a safety issue for the guys he is passing (who may not be expecting P1 at the back of the pack) than to "help" the leader.

I do think that blue flagging is better in the northeast than anywhere else I've been to. It's a lot easier to learn blue flagging on a short track with lots of lapping than on a long track like VIR or Road America. NHMS is a GREAT track to learn how to blue flag at. I have been to tracks where they almost never show the blue flag either in P/Q or races and I don't understand it.
 
:p

I *thought* that may have been you at T10; hard to tell with the helmets on but the enthusiasm always shows through... ;) That corner makes me nervous, with you standing right there. My worst nightmare is that one of you trips and falls over right at that curb that I tap (usually "tap") each time I go through there...or that someone loses it through T9 and hammers that wall over into you guys...

Flaggers did a super job with the blue flags as I was coming through. I had no issues with any competitors' situational awareness, but it was nice to know that everyone was on top of the situation and were informing the drivers. Even I got the blue flag as Eric was working his way up and through us...and it was useful info; as a driver you don't always have the luxury of constantly keeping track of the progress of a faster car to time the pass, so it's nice to have a second set of eyes...

In the end, if you don't like the blue flags, feel free to ignore them. I like 'em, from both sides of the coin. - GA

Race 1, Lap 1...wave to Leigh...twice...
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrbXiWb-yBY[/ame]
 
In mixed groups (like ITR/ITS/ITB) I like the blue flag for traffic coming through the field. My preference is less use by the blue flag station -- if you see the blue flag every lap at the same station, you start to ignore it.

ps Hopefully with my new car, I will see fewer blue flags addressed to me :)
 
Greg Amy said:
:p

I *thought* that may have been you at T10; hard to tell with the helmets on but the enthusiasm always shows through... ;) That corner makes me nervous, with you standing right there. My worst nightmare is that one of you trips and falls over right at that curb that I tap (usually "tap") each time I go through there...or that someone loses it through T9 and hammers that wall over into you guys...

Flaggers did a super job with the blue flags as I was coming through. I had no issues with any competitors' situational awareness, but it was nice to know that everyone was on top of the situation and were informing the drivers. Even I got the blue flag as Eric was working his way up and through us...and it was useful info; as a driver you don't always have the luxury of constantly keeping track of the progress of a faster car to time the pass, so it's nice to have a second set of eyes...

In the end, if you don't like the blue flags, feel free to ignore them. I like 'em, from both sides of the coin. - GA

Race 1, Lap 1...wave to Leigh...twice...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrbXiWb-yBY
Click to expand...


1) the car sounds awesome
2) How did you like coming up over the hill into 6 with those guys glued to your bumper and seeing the "debris" flag :blink:
3) Still doing the tGA double turn in, eh? :p
 
JLawton said:
1) the car sounds awesome
Click to expand...
'Tegs do rock with the audio. That's ~8500 RPM to us earthlings...
2) How did you like coming up over the hill into 6 with those guys glued to your bumper and seeing the "debris" flag :blink:
Click to expand...
I was pretty much "wtf", but I'm guessing that was for the damp track...? Even better than that, check this one out, coming over the same hill with a couple guys on my butt...toward the end...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WcibSdcBgU[/ame]
3) Still doing the tGA double turn in, eh? :p
Click to expand...
Yup, and I know why, from data: I turn in just slightly above the scrub angle the tires will bear, the car rotates, then I back out steering angle to that level. I'm "feeling" the forces on the front tires and adjusting accordingly to be at the maximum grip. And if it works, don't eff with it!

Back to Blue Flagging...

GA
 
Greg Amy said:
:p

I *thought* that may have been you at T10; hard to tell with the helmets on but the enthusiasm always shows through... ;) That corner makes me nervous, with you standing right there. My worst nightmare is that one of you trips and falls over right at that curb that I tap (usually "tap") each time I go through there...or that someone loses it through T9 and hammers that wall over into you guys...
Click to expand...

Hate those helmets but what can you do. I think Mack and I are still the only ones wearing hi-vis orange caps...we started doing it so we could find each other (OK, we're old), but it also makes it easy for others to recognize us...we like that.

Most people don't like T10 for just the reasons you say, but I love it. I only step out from behind the wall to show the flag, otherwise I am behind the jersey barrier watching through the chain link fence. Believe me, I NEVER take my eyes off of T9 for a moment if I am blue flagging, so if something unfolds I have time to bail (and take my yellow flagger with me). I am so unaware of what is going on behind me that I had no idea that you had spun at my turn until I saw you weren't up front going up the hill from 3 on the next lap.

Thanks for the entertainment. It was a really great racing weekend for almost all the groups (poor SRF really had a lousy race and Formula Fast was a field of 4 in a shortened 15 lapper around the track in the pouring rain)....sometimes the best races are in the rain.

PS Greg I wish you'd put something uniquely bright and bold on your car/mirrors/windscreen to help the blue flagger identify you in a pack from a distance. I guarantee you'll get more blue flags "in time". Just sayin'... :)
 
JLawton said:
1) the car sounds awesome
2) How did you like coming up over the hill into 6 with those guys glued to your bumper and seeing the "debris" flag :blink:
3) Still doing the tGA double turn in, eh? :p
Click to expand...

I also found the Teg will cut across the rumbles drivers right at T3 and continue to stay
to the right side up the hill without losing significant speed or grip. I was able to catch and pass some cars, even Miata's, that way.



Greg Amy said:
'Tegs do rock with the audio. That's ~8500 RPM to us earthlings...
I was pretty much "wtf", but I'm guessing that was for the damp track...? Even better than that, check this one out, coming over the same hill with a couple guys on my butt...toward the end...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WcibSdcBgU
Yup, and I know why, from data: I turn in just slightly above the scrub angle the tires will bear, the car rotates, then I back out steering angle to that level. I'm "feeling" the forces on the front tires and adjusting accordingly to be at the maximum grip. And if it works, don't eff with it!

Back to Blue Flagging...

GA
Click to expand...

We were told prior to our session, Gr 5, that a car in a previous session had dropped a line of oil from T3 to T10. I think you can see some of it on track if you look close.
 
wepsbee said:
I also found the Teg will cut across the rumbles drivers right at T3 and continue to stay to the right side up the hill without losing significant speed or grip. I was able to catch and pass some cars, even Miata's, that way.
Click to expand...

if you are saying you are keeping to the right all the way thru the corner (even at the tranistion) you need to raise your corner entry speed.
 
I had a blue flag thrown at me many years ago. Saved my a&%$. I had no idea a faster car was overtaking me very quickly. The blue flag got my eyes to see him approaching and I was able to let him slide by rather than gather us both up. So yes... they are a good thing!
 
almracing said:
I had a blue flag thrown at me many years ago. Saved my a&%$. I had no idea a faster car was overtaking me very quickly. The blue flag got my eyes to see him approaching and I was able to let him slide by rather than gather us both up. So yes... they are a good thing!
Click to expand...

Was it me?
 
Greg Amy said:
'Tegs do rock with the audio. That's ~8500 RPM to us earthlings...
I was pretty much "wtf", but I'm guessing that was for the damp track...? Even better than that, check this one out, coming over the same hill with a couple guys on my butt...toward the end...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WcibSdcBgU
Yup, and I know why, from data: I turn in just slightly above the scrub angle the tires will bear, the car rotates, then I back out steering angle to that level. I'm "feeling" the forces on the front tires and adjusting accordingly to be at the maximum grip. And if it works, don't eff with it!
V
Back to Blue Flagging...

GA
Click to expand...

Wow...nice eye opener.....just shy of 7:00.
 
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