BMW Z3 Specs

[Joe Harlan]

Lets start a thread.

GENERAL
Base price including destination $29,995
Curb weight, manual 2723 lbs
Curb weight, auto 2811 lbs
Weight distribution with driver, f/r % 51/49

ENGINE 
Engine type 1.9 liter DOHC 16-valve inline-4
Bore x stroke 3.31 in. x 3.29 in.
Compression ratio 10.0:1
Horsepower (SAE) 138 bhp @ 6000 rpm
Torque 133 lb-ft @ 4300 rpm
Fuel Premium unleaded
Fuel economy, manual 23 mpg city, 31 mpg highway
Fuel economy, auto 23 mpg city, 31 mpg highway


WHEELS 
Wheels 7 J x 16 cast alloy, five spoke Z-style
Tires Michelin Pilot HX radials,
225/50ZR-16


SPEED 
Top speed 116 mph, electronically limited (I'm sorry)
Acceleration, 0-60 mph, manual 8.3 seconds
Acceleration, 0-60 mph, auto 8.7 seconds (estimated

So who wants to offer any more information.

2.0 liter at 10:1 DOHC 138HP? Must have a big powersteering pump.

 

[Joe Harlan]

2.8 auto has 4:10 rear gear is it not legal?

2.3/2.5 auto offer a 4.27:1 gear. legal?

 

[Joe Harlan]

Dinan info:
S Package-Z3 1.9 Roadster (96-12/96)

Part #:

Price:
SEZ-19ES
$1726.00

Labor Units: 35.0
Emission Status: 50 State Emission Legal
List of Included Items: Stage 2 Engine Software; Cold Air Intake; Free Flow Exhaust; Signature Floor Mats; Dinan S-Z3 1.9 Plaque; Dinan Deck Lid Badge
Peak Horsepower: 153 @ 6000 rpm
Peak Torque: 138 lb/ft @ 4500 rpm
Point Value: 10

looks like 15 HP to me. and that looks like they are not even trying. Not only that look at the torque curve after the software. I bet I could get another 10 with a custom header and my exhaust. ad 15 more from a proper vlue print and balance job plus .5 compression bump. whats that ad up to 153 dinan +10 for header and exhaust=163 +15 for blue print and compression bump with IT legal mods 178HP looks like a hot rod to me.

 

[Z3_GoCar]

Originally posted by Joe Harlan@Nov 12 2005, 12:03 AM
Dinan info:
S Package-Z3 1.9 Roadster (96-12/96)   

Part #:

Price: 
  SEZ-19ES
$1726.00

Labor Units:  35.0
Emission Status:  50 State Emission Legal
List of Included Items:  Stage 2 Engine Software; Cold Air Intake; Free Flow Exhaust; Signature Floor Mats; Dinan S-Z3 1.9 Plaque; Dinan Deck Lid Badge
Peak Horsepower:  153 @ 6000 rpm
Peak Torque:  138 lb/ft @ 4500 rpm
Point Value:  10

looks like 15 HP to me. and that looks like they are not even trying.  Not only that look at the torque curve after the software. I bet I could get another 10 with a custom header and my exhaust. ad 15 more from a proper vlue print and balance job plus .5 compression bump.  whats that ad up to 153 dinan +10 for header and exhaust=163 +15 for blue print and compression bump with IT legal mods 178HP looks like a hot rod to me.

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Here's a better discussion on the Dinan cold air:

Fogg Box

Stage two is there to correct for the flow turbulance caused by the cone filter on the air flow meter, nothing more. Rob's already got everything esentually listed here except for the floor mats and badges, we all know that worth about 5hp each I'm interested in seeing how his car dyno's. BTW, the software's 50 state legal, I doubt it's changed any of the important parameters that would void the California mandated requiremants. It's basicly designed to be tamper proof.

James

 

[Geo]

Originally posted by Joe Harlan@Nov 12 2005, 12:03 AM
whats that ad up to 153 dinan +10 for header and exhaust=163 +15 for blue print and compression bump with IT legal mods 178HP looks like a hot rod to me.

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Wow, 178 bhp. That's within 7 of the ITS 944. I'd be happy to be in ITA.

I'd guess you're in the ballpark there Joe. Perhaps a bit generous for the blueprint and compression bump, but still no mention of pulleys that do not actually increase hp, but will show up as hp at the wheels on an inertial dyno (and thus on-track performance).

 

[Doc Bro]

Joe,
As I mentioned in my other thread I've already done the head shave. Also, if you've never seen a "stock" Z3 header you should check one out. It's a piece that is about as racy as you can get. As far as "cracking the code" I'll admit readily that is waaaayyy over my head. I'm going to work this winter with Oscar Velez in Puerto Rico on the computer and what can be done to it. In regards to your diff question....nothing from the 2.8 is legal on the 1.9 furthermore it doesn't even fit. We spoke about that in the other thread...large case diff vs. small case.
The only point I was tying to make earlier was that how does a competitor go about proving a process or theory wrong. Everyone has talked about development as a way to gain hp and therefore advantage......just the way it should be. I feel the Z3 needs development to prove something is not possible...very different. I have a fairly developed Z3. Possibly the fastest in the country . The Dinan stuff you mentioned I have equivalents of or better. I will be getting the dyno #'s and will post them but, if you follow the way things go around here then the next naysayer will say "wrong dyno.....Mustang vs. Dynapack blah,blah blah" or "yes but you have a stock header" My point is you have to have thick skin and a thicker wallet to prove someone wrong. The burden of proof lies on the competitor not the naysayer........

Rob "looking forward to an ever increasing pile of useless "developed" crap in my garage" Breault

 

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by Doc Bro@Nov 12 2005, 09:55 AM
The only point I was tying to make earlier was that how does a competitor go about proving a process or theory wrong.  Rob "looking forward to an ever increasing pile of useless "developed" crap in my garage" Breault

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I think the problem most of us are having is that while we have no hard evidence that the gains CAN be made, you have none that they can't. It SOUNDS like pure speculation. The VW guys and the Porsche guys did the development and have piles of data to prove that that technology can only do "X". You will have to do the same. What if it is possible? Nobody knows so we have to assume it is for now.

"Take a look at the Z3 header sometime, it can't be improved upon" is really quite amuzing. It may LOOK nice on the outside, but tell us a few things:

- Are the tubes equal length?
- Are then tuned for torque of HP?
- Would the opposite make for a faster racecar?
- What does the INSIDE of the header look like?
- Could an Extrude hone job on the stock part make it flow better?
- How about some external coatings to lower intake temps?

This is just for the header.

This car is now my pet project in NER (after my Miata!) and we WILL be swapping a ride or two!

AB

 

[Joe Harlan]

if you follow the way things go around here then the next naysayer will say "wrong dyno.....Mustang vs. Dynapack blah,blah blah" or "yes but you have a stock header

See there you go taking shots for no reason. Provide data and see what happens. I don't care what dyno it is, the only thing I will suggest is that you use the same place everytime. The only way to know if your getting real gains is to have consistency in how you gather the information.

I will say this the numbers I offered are based off of 20 years of building different types of street and race engines. They are based off of average gains from these types of mods. You say you shaved the head did you cc it? Did you port match it? Did you flow it?

I understand that you feel the stock exhaust manifold is as racy as the come butI am convinced it's not. I have not found one yet but I will. If it looks like the other factory tube heads BMW produces it looks good but its not a full on race part. to start with the primary tubes are 2 short and it is a single sized tube. How are you handling the converter removal. I certainly don't want to come across like a jerk but it bothers me that you feel beat before you start. Having the fastest one in the country doesn't mean it is a complete package it just means nobody has taken one on as a project.

 

[Geo]

Joe's last paragraph is spot on. The fact is, (and I'm going to be very direct here, but it's not meant to be rude) your car is woefully underdeveloped to claim what can be done with a Z3. So the factory does not make a shorter set of rear end gears. Have some custom made. If you're going to complain about the costs then, well, you just aren't interested in fully developing the car. If you don't want to have someone who knows what they are doing design a few hand made headers for your and try them on a dyno, you aren't developing your car. Look, I cannot afford to do this, but I would never claim my car will be as fully developed as they can get.

The bottom line is you have undertaken a half-hearted development effort and now are looking for a break in your classifcation. It's not going to happen. Now, send your engine to Sunbelt and have them develop not only the mechanicals, but the engine management, and then come up way short and you would have a basis for discussion. Until it isn't going to happen. Those are the harsh realities.

You haven't convinced us the car cannot be developed. You have convinced us you have not developed the car.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but those are the realities of racing.

 

[Doc Bro]

Originally posted by Geo@Nov 12 2005, 04:49 PM
Joe's last paragraph is spot on.  The fact is, (and I'm going to be very direct here, but it's not meant to be rude) your car is woefully underdeveloped to claim what can be done with a Z3.  So the factory does not make a shorter set of rear end gears.  Have some custom made.  If you're going to complain about the costs then, well, you just aren't interested in fully developing the car.  If you don't want to have someone who knows what they are doing design a few hand made headers for your and try them on a dyno, you aren't developing your car.  Look, I cannot afford to do this, but I would never claim my car will be as fully developed as they can get.

The bottom line is you have undertaken a half-hearted development effort and now are looking for a break in your classifcation.  It's not going to happen.  Now, send your engine to Sunbelt and have them develop not only the mechanicals, but the engine management, and then come up way short and you would have a basis for discussion.  Until it isn't going to happen.  Those are the harsh realities.

You haven't convinced us the car cannot be developed.  You have convinced us you have not developed the car.


I don't feel it is harsh at all, in fact it is what I expected. 
Did I ever mention that I thought I had a fully developed car...No
Did I say I was positive x or y or z wouldn't make a difference....no
Did I say I would not be getting  dyno runs to prove my position all along the way..no


I admitted all along where I was in the process I have been forthright and respectful to everyone and their individual opinions.  It seems that you guys have become frustrated with the discussion....are we not all entitled to an opinion?  My hunch is that a lot of the gentlemen on this forum would be upset if they were in my position.....I am not saying that I'm the only one who's been here.  But, again try finding the most basic part as a set of BMW "race wheels" in 16x7 for under 300-350 per wheel....how many of you guys have 2 sets of 300 per wheel racing wheels??  I mean no disrespect whatsoever, but does "development" include wheels also? 

The only piece that I have said I don't have yet is dyno #'s but I will.  If their great I'll be the first to say so.  I'll even apologize for "bellyaching".  But lets not forget it is my right to speculate and have a hunch.  It is funny to me how people get so upset as if they know me, my car, my abilities and mostly my intentions... I am not a malicious guy.  I'm not looking for a proverbial nod of the head. I am a scientist with a theory that needs to be proven or disproven.....how is that offensive.  I have the "stomach" and intellect to handle a one off car...not an issue.
It is only my contention that the car is too heavy for its IT potential hp gain-  that's it. I have to prove I'm right (hard) you have to prove I'm wrong (easy).  I feel to reiterate my previous point it's very easy to say "yes but you don't have x or y or z".  I'll bet we as a group could even say that about Nick Leverones 7 or Paysons Miata- unarguably some of the best developed cars in the US.  I'll certainly be more cautious about posting my opinions and hunches in the future. 

I do appreciate all of the constructive feedback.  I also appreciate the wealth of info provided about the directions that I should explore.  The debate has inspired me to make this little car impressive.  (It may turn it into a business venture by the time all is said and done).

I'll keep my mouth shut for now and repost when I have #'s for everyone.
I have enjoyed but I'm done- the spirit of the debate is no longer there for me.
Thanks to all who are interested in helping...sorry to the guys who thought I was being a whiner or trying to get a break in classification.

Rob "going back to being a dentist" Breault

PS...any takers on a thread about the classification of the Integra????  




Sorry if this sounds harsh, but those are the realities of racing.

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