E36 325is questions for IT/S or /R classifications

[jennings27]

I'm (very) new here, and had a few questions about part applications for SCCA IT/S or /R classification/building, with respect to a 1995 BMW 325is (total build up from street car).
1. Are polycarb or Lexan windshields allowed, or is that still under the "any other modification" ban? I know it is specifically addressed in the Super Touring, but my reading of the IT GCR didn't leave me with a satifactory answer. (Related: where to buy windshield clips, or do you have to fab. your own?)
2. Are adjustable rear control arms replaceable w/ aftermarket parts for the purposes of camber correction, or are you restricted to monkeying around, trying to twist/pry/hammer stock parts into correct camber? I've done repair shop alignment stuff with OEM connecters, and it's a serious PiTA.
3. Are coil-overs allowed in the IT/S cars? I've seen some postings that indicate that coil-overs are used in IT/R, but my reading of the GCR was that all non-stock-position coils were banned for all IT applications.
4. Lastly, can you alter your rear differential/final drive cover? Reading the GCR literally, IT rule 4.A says you can have any final drive assembly so long as it fits inside the stock housing. Maybe I'm slicing the bologna too thin here, but that seems to only be limiting what sort of differential assembly you can put in, without addressing the housing itself. Even if you can't replace the cover (I'm thinking one of those Rogue Engineering 3 quart capacity with fins, from Turner Motorsport), can I drill/tap in order to run a diff. fluid cooler assembly?

Miscellanious other questions:
What sort of oil pan/pump upgrades & alterations need to be done to the 92-95 325's to make them trackworthy, without underlubing in high-g turns/braking? Anyone got some recommendations?
Likewise for fuel cells/pumps/regulators; anyone have an opinion on what systems are good? I was looking at the Jegs kit, part #100805, along with a JAZ fuel cell, part #252-116-01 (also at Jegs.com). I was thinking that replacing the stock fuel tank would be better safety and convenience wise, as well as upgrading the pump/filter assemblies and lines. Am I totally missing something, or getting something wrong? Any thoughts are appreciated. Oh yeah, and I also wanted to use the stock fuel tank position for a differential cooling mount.
Are drag 'chutes ever put on, just in case something goes entirely FUBAR, or am I being too paranoid about safety?
Lastly: what are people's thoughts on gauges, data gathering, and display/storage for IT/S or /R racing? What's necessary, what's worthless, who makes good gauges/kits?
Thanks for any input.

 

[lateapex911]

Welcome!
1- Basic rule is if it doesn't say you can, you can't. (IIDSYCYC) So no lexan. (except in the cas of vents in side windows. I fabbed my own clips, I run a "Dry" install for easy swaps.
2-I'll let the BMW experts chime in on the best legal method of achieving your goal.
3-yes, if they are replacing struts. Camber plates are allowed. Again, the BMW gurus will have the best answer for the specifics.
4-internals only.

Drag chutes/paranoia. No, and yes! (you'll have no time if you discover a complete failure, and the effectiveness at our low speeds is highly doubtful anyway.)
Instrumentation. Consider a Data aq system. It will kill all birds with one stone from guages to lap timing to driver education. AIM units and the DL1 are popular options, but give serious consideration to whateve friends and racers around you use so that you can compare data.

 

[JoshS]

I'm (very) new here, and had a few questions about part applications for SCCA IT/S or /R classification/building, with respect to a 1995 BMW 325is (total build up from street car).
1. Are polycarb or Lexan windshields allowed, or is that still under the "any other modification" ban? I know it is specifically addressed in the Super Touring, but my reading of the IT GCR didn't leave me with a satifactory answer. (Related: where to buy windshield clips, or do you have to fab. your own?)

The rules are clear -- you can make ONLY the allowed, listed modifications. In other words, "if it doesn't say you CAN, then you CAN'T."

So, no, this is not Super Touring, it's Improved Touring, and it doesn't say you can in the IT ruleset ... so, you can't. Glass only.

2. Are adjustable rear control arms replaceable w/ aftermarket parts for the purposes of camber correction, or are you restricted to monkeying around, trying to twist/pry/hammer stock parts into correct camber? I've done repair shop alignment stuff with OEM connecters, and it's a serious PiTA.

Same answer. No aftermarket suspension arms.

3. Are coil-overs allowed in the IT/S cars? I've seen some postings that indicate that coil-overs are used in IT/R, but my reading of the GCR was that all non-stock-position coils were banned for all IT applications.

Yes, coilovers are fine. Top of page 337: "Coil over threaded body shock/struts are permitted."

4. Lastly, can you alter your rear differential/final drive cover? Reading the GCR literally, IT rule 4.A says you can have any final drive assembly so long as it fits inside the stock housing. Maybe I'm slicing the bologna too thin here, but that seems to only be limiting what sort of differential assembly you can put in, without addressing the housing itself. Even if you can't replace the cover (I'm thinking one of those Rogue Engineering 3 quart capacity with fins, from Turner Motorsport), can I drill/tap in order to run a diff. fluid cooler assembly?

If it doesn't say you can, then you can't. Stock cover only. I can tell you from experience that you should be fine without the finned cover.

Miscellanious other questions:
What sort of oil pan/pump upgrades & alterations need to be done to the 92-95 325's to make them trackworthy, without underlubing in high-g turns/braking? Anyone got some recommendations?

Just weld the oil pump nut so it doesn't fail. Stock system is fine. (Well, I dunno, my engine blew up a month ago, so maybe it isn't

[/quote]Likewise for fuel cells/pumps/regulators; anyone have an opinion on what systems are good? I was looking at the Jegs kit, part #100805, along with a JAZ fuel cell, part #252-116-01 (also at Jegs.com). I was thinking that replacing the stock fuel tank would be better safety and convenience wise, as well as upgrading the pump/filter assemblies and lines. Am I totally missing something, or getting something wrong? Any thoughts are appreciated. Oh yeah, and I also wanted to use the stock fuel tank position for a differential cooling mount.[/quote]

Don't worry about the diff cooler, and the stock tank is plastic and plenty safe. Just use stock.

Are drag 'chutes ever put on, just in case something goes entirely FUBAR, or am I being too paranoid about safety?

First time I've ever heard that question! It's hard to be too paranoid about safety, but a drag chute won't help you. You won't have enough straight runoff to use it.

Lastly: what are people's thoughts on gauges, data gathering, and display/storage for IT/S or /R racing? What's necessary, what's worthless, who makes good gauges/kits?
Thanks for any input.

Religious question there. I'm a luddite with respect to data, so I'll let others answer that question.

 

[ed325its]

My understanding of the 1995 E36 325 (I'm just the driver!)

1 Lexan windshields or side/rear window replacements are not allowed.
2 Rear control arms are not adjustable and can not be changed or modified from stock. Only options is eccentric bushings/spherical bearings/shims.
3 "Coil over threaded body shocks/struts are permitted".
4 Rear diff covermust remain stock. You can add a sensor but not a cooler assembly.
5 The safer solution is to run the stock fuel tank and add a second fuel pump in the other well of the tank. This will cure any pickup or starvation issues in long corners.
6 NO DRAG CHUTES!

Just buy or build a safe vehicle and develop from there.

INSERT SHAMELESS PLUG HERE [ I have a 1995 325is ITS/R car for sale in these classifieds.]

 

[Doc Bro]

Welcome,

I think you'll be pleased witht the e36- it's a stable and well known platform. IMO do not run a fuel cell. It's a waste of $$. BMW makes their tanks out of crash withstanding materials and they have foam in them already so in essence it is a fuel cell. Plus it's location is real safe- down low and in front of the axel (read; low polar moment). You won't need a diff cooler or fancy cover...BMW LSD's are bullet proof as it is....just change the fluid (don't overfill) and go.

Good luck and say goodbye to any pocket change you had...

R

 

[jennings27]

Further question

GCR page 335: (Engines) Hardware items (nuts, bolts, etc.) may be replaced with similar items performing the same fastening function(s).
The same language is repeated on page 336 RE transmission & final drive/differential.
Also, p. 338 says bushing material is unrestricted.

So, does this language constitute authorization for solid motor/trans/diff mounts?
Oh, and it would be a great idea if SCCA came up with a list of "don'ts" for common questions like this so beginners don't have to go asking questions that have already been settled.

Other thing, while reviewing 2009 GCR, it says "Springs of any origin may be used, provided they are of the same number and type as originally fitted, i.e., coil, leaf, torsion bar, and that they shall be installed in the original location using the original system of attachment." Doesn't this mean that coil-overs are banned for the rear suspension, where a modified MacPherson, i.e. non-coil-over, structure is used?

 

[lawtonglenn]

.

I was thinking of running a drag chute just to psych-out the competition

.

 

[lateapex911]

GCR page 335: (Engines) Hardware items (nuts, bolts, etc.) may be replaced with similar items performing the same fastening function(s).
The same language is repeated on page 336 RE transmission & final drive/differential.
Also, p. 338 says bushing material is unrestricted.

So, does this language constitute authorization for solid motor/trans/diff mounts?

No, you're reading an allowance from the suspension section.

Kirk can explain more eloquently than I but the logic is to explain the "cans" and to always remember the basic line which reads, "Other than those specifically allowed by these rules, no component or part normally found on a stock example of a given vehicle may be disabled, altered or removed." In other words, read the rules specifically, and assume noting. The rulebook is a friend who tells you plainly what you can do.
Oh, and it would be a great idea if SCCA came up with a list of "don'ts" for common questions like this so beginners don't have to go asking questions that have already been settled.

Other thing, while reviewing 2009 GCR, it says "Springs of any origin may be used, provided they are of the same number and type as originally fitted, i.e., coil, leaf, torsion bar, and that they shall be installed in the original location using the original system of attachment." Doesn't this mean that coil-overs are banned for the rear suspension, where a modified MacPherson, i.e. non-coil-over, structure is used?

Yes, coilovers are only allowed on cars originally equipped. Common language refers to strut based systems as coilovers. Struts are essentially free, and adjustable sleeves may be fitted.

It took several readings for me to absorb the GCR. I still see ways to do things that the words allow that I missed on the 15th reading because I assumed I knew what the rules intent was. The glossary is important as well.

By all means, building a car is a learning experience. NASA does a system of "points" per modification. To truly ferret out a winning combination, you must ascertain the actual affect of each modification. Is "XX worth 5 points?" Classes are divided by point levels. It's great for cars that are already modified and not to a specific ruleset, but it could be a labrynth to deduce the best compromises if the competition were stout. The joy of the SCCA system is that everyone is on the same playing field.

Finally, two things- first, take a walk thru the paddock at a local race and chat with the owners of cars like yours. you'll find 90% to be friendly and open. Secid, consider buying a built car. It will save you half the expenditure of a ground up build, and many of the answers you're asking are figured out for you. First time racers are nearly always better off buying than building.

What's your name, and where are you from?

 

[JoshS]

GCR page 335: (Engines) Hardware items (nuts, bolts, etc.) may be replaced with similar items performing the same fastening function(s).
The same language is repeated on page 336 RE transmission & final drive/differential.
Also, p. 338 says bushing material is unrestricted.

So, does this language constitute authorization for solid motor/trans/diff mounts?

No, drivetrain mounts are not considered "hardware items." And page 338 is about suspension, it's suspension bushings that are unrestricted.

Other thing, while reviewing 2009 GCR, it says "Springs of any origin may be used, provided they are of the same number and type as originally fitted, i.e., coil, leaf, torsion bar, and that they shall be installed in the original location using the original system of attachment." Doesn't this mean that coil-overs are banned for the rear suspension, where a modified MacPherson, i.e. non-coil-over, structure is used?

That's right, you cannot do a rear coilover conversion. But you can put height adjuster spacers in the stock spring location.

You don't need to do all of these things you're thinking about to build a competitive E36 ... I think you're trying too hard!

Start with a street car. Remove the allowable interior components. Put in a good, legal cage, read those rules carefully. Good shock/strut/spring package (coilovers in front, not in back). Lightweight wheels and good tires. Remove the A/C. Add good headers and remove the cats. Get good tuning, that's where the power comes from. Aftermarket ECU not totally necessary but will help.

Of course, do the appropriate maintenance that you'd do to any used BMW -- fresh cooling system, for example. Keep in mind that chassis reinforcement isn't allowed.

That's it. Go fast. Have fun. Race!

 

[mda_II]

Another E36 question

OK guys, 1st post here, not new to SCCA or car racing in general, building an E36 from a solo car into ITR for next year.(yes I know, but this isn't the 1st car I've built before and it's part of the fun for me....LoL)

I just haven't went into the shop and thought about it too much, but mine has the stock BMW Sunroof (metal top panel).
GCR says it must be removed (and covered) OR "positively secured in the closed position" Anyone done this ? What's the SCCA kosher with for "positvely securing" it ? Pins? Manufacture my own lock/latch to keep it forward/and down? What has anyone done ?

I might like to be able to open and close it for non-SCCA track days and/or Solo II's.....

Also, someone mentioned that the stock E36 fuel tank already has a foam insert ? Where can I document that? Bentley manual maybe? Reason I ask, is the local club I am thinking I might run with (SWMS) follows SCCA GCR, but they require fuel cells for all cars (except Showroom Stock....yeah go figure...) If I can prove that BMW has this already I may be able to get it waived with their tech chief. Again, I admit I haven't done my homework, but hey....I been busy racing....LoL

Thanks in advance.

Mike
Farmington NM

1992 BMW 325i
2009 ASA Speed Truck Challenge
1998 & 99 Central Arizona Raceway Season Champion, Dwarf Cars
2000,01 & 02 Aztec Speedway Season Champion, Dwarf Cars
2000,01,02 & 08 Montezuma County Speeway Track Champion,Dwarf Cars

 

[Z3_GoCar]

If they follow the SCCA GCR, then show them GCR 9.3.26 "All classes must run a fuel cell except for Showroom stock, Touring, Spec Miata, and Improved Touring." (08) Actually, Production droped the fuel cell requirement if the stock tank meets certain spec's, and your's does.