fire suits
- Thread starter dazzlesa
- Start date
Daryl DeArman
New member
3 layer (entire suit not just torso), Carbon-X long underwear, socks and balaclava.
Haven't lived through a fire, but been close enough to know that it doesn't discriminate. It doesn't burn colder just because you are a club racer, or that you are in a slow car. At an amateur event it is not likely you will have an infield care center or an airship on standby. Get all the protection you can. In the unlikely event of an actual fire, it is much more likely that whatever incident caused the fire will result in some delay in you exiting the car on your own.
Get a quality suit so that you don't have to replace it every 2-3 years. It might cost a bit more in the short term, but 5-6 years into the game you will be $'s ahead. I bought an OMP because I felt their quality was much better than the Sparco's I also looked at.
The CARBON-X stuff is great at slowing the heat transfer rate...take an old pair of nomex socks (least expensive item) and double them up to form 4 layers in the palm of your friends' hand, take a propane torch to them and see how long before your friend feels the heat....now do the same thing with a carbon-x sock....after that little demo I don't think you or your friend will wear anything but Carbon-x underwear.
Haven't lived through a fire, but been close enough to know that it doesn't discriminate. It doesn't burn colder just because you are a club racer, or that you are in a slow car. At an amateur event it is not likely you will have an infield care center or an airship on standby. Get all the protection you can. In the unlikely event of an actual fire, it is much more likely that whatever incident caused the fire will result in some delay in you exiting the car on your own.
Get a quality suit so that you don't have to replace it every 2-3 years. It might cost a bit more in the short term, but 5-6 years into the game you will be $'s ahead. I bought an OMP because I felt their quality was much better than the Sparco's I also looked at.
The CARBON-X stuff is great at slowing the heat transfer rate...take an old pair of nomex socks (least expensive item) and double them up to form 4 layers in the palm of your friends' hand, take a propane torch to them and see how long before your friend feels the heat....now do the same thing with a carbon-x sock....after that little demo I don't think you or your friend will wear anything but Carbon-x underwear.
Three layer Simpson (very pleased with Simpson suits. Not so much the helmets) No underwear. But that Carbon X sounds like a good idea. Been racing for 25 years, have been lucky haven't tested it yet.
Guys, when was the last time you saw an IT car engulfed? What was the car, what was the circumstances?
Guys, when was the last time you saw an IT car engulfed? What was the car, what was the circumstances?
Here's a critical thing to know: when Nomex fails due to fire it melts. If the Nomex is next to your skin it will melt and stick to your skin which sounds like no fun. Cotton or treated cotton (Proban) will char (think of smoldering paper) and is a much better material to be wearing actually in contact with you skin. The Nomex suit will protect you on hte outer layters and then the natural fiber cotton will keep it away from your skin. Now the Carbon X is an even better material: it chars like cotton but at a mucher higher temperature and with amazing insulating value. As soon as I understood all this I went out and got a complete set of Carbon X unberwear + socks + balaclava. I think the Under X brand is the best for Carbon X, the simpson stuff seems to be nowhere near as good quality construction.
As for my suit, my lovely fiancee just upgraded my duds significantly from my 12-year old no name suit: she got me a Sparco X-Light in shiny grey. It is absolutely awesome and I can't wait to look good in it on Labor day weekend ;-)
As for my suit, my lovely fiancee just upgraded my duds significantly from my 12-year old no name suit: she got me a Sparco X-Light in shiny grey. It is absolutely awesome and I can't wait to look good in it on Labor day weekend ;-)
dave parker
New member
"Here's a critical thing to know: when Nomex fails due to fire it melts. If the Nomex is next to your skin it will melt and stick to your skin which sounds like no fun. "
Evan
You are incorrect. Nomex does not melt. I believe that you are thinking of Nylon, which does turn to liquid when exposed to heat and then as it returns to a solid state it attaches itself to whatever it is in contact with. Nomex is a fire retardant fabric which actually turns somewhat crytaline when exposed to high heat. I have a Nomex suit that was in a fire that I will bring to the Labor Day event so that you can see what I am talking about. Your Sparco X light suit is Nomex by the way.
That being said, fire retardant underware (be it Nomex, Carmyth, Carbon-X, Proban) is a great thing to have. If you don't believe me ask Dale Earnhardt Jr. The minimum requirement for SCCA club racing is a SFI 32a/1 rated sut with Nomex underware or a SFI 32a/5 without Nomex underware. That is the MINIMUM. The SFI 32a/5 suit is good for 9.5 SECONDS of protection before second degree burns begin. Obviously before you have second degree burns you have to have first degree burns. Tests show that fire retardant underware is good for an additional 3-5 seconds of burn protection. Sounds like cheap insurance to me.
Burns suck, I have lived that dream/nightmare and have zero desire to ever visit the burn ward again.
I have also seen an IT car burn recently. At MARRS 7 at Summit Point (August 14, 05) it was an ITE mitsubishi eclipse, that burned quite dramatically. But, fuel spraying on a hot turbo at 40 psi will do that.
As always your results may vary.
cheers
"dangerous" dave parker
wdcr ITC#97
Evan
You are incorrect. Nomex does not melt. I believe that you are thinking of Nylon, which does turn to liquid when exposed to heat and then as it returns to a solid state it attaches itself to whatever it is in contact with. Nomex is a fire retardant fabric which actually turns somewhat crytaline when exposed to high heat. I have a Nomex suit that was in a fire that I will bring to the Labor Day event so that you can see what I am talking about. Your Sparco X light suit is Nomex by the way.
That being said, fire retardant underware (be it Nomex, Carmyth, Carbon-X, Proban) is a great thing to have. If you don't believe me ask Dale Earnhardt Jr. The minimum requirement for SCCA club racing is a SFI 32a/1 rated sut with Nomex underware or a SFI 32a/5 without Nomex underware. That is the MINIMUM. The SFI 32a/5 suit is good for 9.5 SECONDS of protection before second degree burns begin. Obviously before you have second degree burns you have to have first degree burns. Tests show that fire retardant underware is good for an additional 3-5 seconds of burn protection. Sounds like cheap insurance to me.
Burns suck, I have lived that dream/nightmare and have zero desire to ever visit the burn ward again.
I have also seen an IT car burn recently. At MARRS 7 at Summit Point (August 14, 05) it was an ITE mitsubishi eclipse, that burned quite dramatically. But, fuel spraying on a hot turbo at 40 psi will do that.
As always your results may vary.
cheers
"dangerous" dave parker
wdcr ITC#97
RacerBill
New member
Rick: I would suggest that you visit a store that sells suits rather than buy mailorder, unless you are absolutely sure of the fit. In addition to being able to make sure that the fit is right, they will be able to answer all your questions and provide advice.
When I went to purchase my first suit, I went to RaceQuip here in Columbus, OH. I tried on a suit that according to my measurments should have fit. What do you know, because I have an ostomy (side effect of cancer several years ago), the suit was not be usable. Well, for every door that shuts, another opens. My wife was looking around the showroom and found a brand new custom suit that had been returned. And it fit! So, I got a suit that I knew I could use, was much better quality than the suit I had intended to buy, and for about the same price.
Just my humble opinion. Your experience may be different.
BTW, I wear a SFI 5 with long underwear! And I am considering CarbonX or something like it.
When I went to purchase my first suit, I went to RaceQuip here in Columbus, OH. I tried on a suit that according to my measurments should have fit. What do you know, because I have an ostomy (side effect of cancer several years ago), the suit was not be usable. Well, for every door that shuts, another opens. My wife was looking around the showroom and found a brand new custom suit that had been returned. And it fit! So, I got a suit that I knew I could use, was much better quality than the suit I had intended to buy, and for about the same price.
Just my humble opinion. Your experience may be different.
BTW, I wear a SFI 5 with long underwear! And I am considering CarbonX or something like it.
Daryl DeArman
New member
Bill,
I am not sure there is anything else like Carbon-X. Nomex belongs to DuPont, several manufacturers use it. Carbon-X belongs to someone, different manufacturers use it. The Carbon-X underwear that is sold by Pegasus runs extremely small, I am 6'1"- 160#, 42" chest, 31" waist. I needed XL top and Medium bottoms are tight. What the heck is a 200# guy going to wear XXXL???
In the past I did own a Simpson suit. One I was very happy with for a very long time. Longer than I should admit. The quality was outstanding, I replaced it because there were lighter, more comfortable suits available. I looked to go the Simpson route, but was disappointed with the stitching quality on the new suits (same reason I didn't get a Sparco). So check out the one you are going to buy in person. I am sure not all Simpson (or any other large mfg) makes all the suits at one place, inspected by the same qc person.
FWIW, Simpson helmets aren't made by Simpson. They are/were made by DJ Manufacturing in Indiana.
I am not sure there is anything else like Carbon-X. Nomex belongs to DuPont, several manufacturers use it. Carbon-X belongs to someone, different manufacturers use it. The Carbon-X underwear that is sold by Pegasus runs extremely small, I am 6'1"- 160#, 42" chest, 31" waist. I needed XL top and Medium bottoms are tight. What the heck is a 200# guy going to wear XXXL???
In the past I did own a Simpson suit. One I was very happy with for a very long time. Longer than I should admit. The quality was outstanding, I replaced it because there were lighter, more comfortable suits available. I looked to go the Simpson route, but was disappointed with the stitching quality on the new suits (same reason I didn't get a Sparco). So check out the one you are going to buy in person. I am sure not all Simpson (or any other large mfg) makes all the suits at one place, inspected by the same qc person.
FWIW, Simpson helmets aren't made by Simpson. They are/were made by DJ Manufacturing in Indiana.
I am using a pyrotect SFI-5 single layer suit with raceware underware. This suit is the coolest and most comfortable suit I have worn so far. For more details see www.bellmotorsports.com
CaptainWho
New member
Do you use a "cool shirt" system? If so, a heavier fire suit helps "keep the cool in" just like without one it "keeps the heat in". 