I need to replace my stock fuel tank in a 91 Mazda RX7 and am considering a fuel cell instead as replacement. No idea where to begin. On-line I am finding $250-$1000. Is there a difference in the cell or am I viewing an incomplete system and will later need to buy additional components. Any suggestions on purchase and install will be helpful
Fuel Cells
- Thread starter eightiron
- Start date
Dave Gomberg
New member
You need to be sure that the cells you are looking at meet the GCR requirements. See section 9.3.26. I don't think you will find any $250 cells that meet the requirements.
Dave
Dave
Andy Bettencourt
Super Moderator
This is a debatable section for IT. Maybe the CRB needs a letter to clarify.
Dave Gomberg
New member
No, it isn't debatable. While a fuel cell is not required in IT, if you are going to use one, it must meet the requirements of 9.3.26. That includes 9.3.26.4 - rotary molded cells.
Dave
Dave
Andy Bettencourt
Super Moderator
That is how I read it but some do not. I am sure Patullo will chime in.
dickita15
New member
Jeez Andy, I don’t think I am the only one on this side.
Dave I am surprised to hear such a definitive statement from you. We have discussed this item here before a couple of times. The way the good book is written it appears to say that all cars except IT, SM, SS & touring need to meet FIA FT-3 and that the rotary molded cells not meeting that standard are allowable in those classes. This wording has been static for a number of years and there are a lot of cars that have been built and logbooked using this interpretation.
My understanding for the reason for this is that Prod and GT cars require a higher standard as they are allowed to remove the OEM bumper systems that we are required to retain.
Dave I am surprised to hear such a definitive statement from you. We have discussed this item here before a couple of times. The way the good book is written it appears to say that all cars except IT, SM, SS & touring need to meet FIA FT-3 and that the rotary molded cells not meeting that standard are allowable in those classes. This wording has been static for a number of years and there are a lot of cars that have been built and logbooked using this interpretation.
My understanding for the reason for this is that Prod and GT cars require a higher standard as they are allowed to remove the OEM bumper systems that we are required to retain.
Dave Gomberg
New member
Dick:
Why are you surprised? We are in violent agreement here.
Dave
Why are you surprised? We are in violent agreement here.
Dave
dickita15
New member
Ok reading is fundamental and I guess I misread your post. I thought you were saying a FIA FT-3 was required in an IT car. Just to make sure we agree, a rotary molded cell that does not meet FIA FT-3 is legal in Improved Touring per 9.3.26.4.
Maybe I should not post so early in the morning.
I have an 8 gallon one of these in one of our cars, cheap money.
http://www.jazproducts.com/pro_sport_fc.html
Andy Bettencourt
Super Moderator
to the OP-
fuel cells vary widely in price depending on cerification and materials. that said, a "surge tank" with trap doors, such as the ATI "black box" helps in the later stages, particularly on long corners and in wide/shallow cells. it is not a requirement. also, pump / filters / etc... are usually NOT included in the purchase price. your stock or stock-like units can work, you simply need to devise a system to locate it in the cell. all matter or bulkhead fittings and wiring pass-throughs are available.
you will need to have a support system and straps, etc.. installed in the car unless you use the spare tire well molded parts, typically rotary molded as described above.
also keep in mind that the plumbing in the interior of the car (where it is likely to be) will need to be stainless braided unless it is fully obscured to the driver compartment by a bulkhead. as the 2nd gen 7 is in need of weight over the rear axle (or so I hear, I only play with pistons) this sort of mod should not scare you off, but might cost more than you are interested in spending - both in time and money.
the thing about cells is to ask questions, do your homework, and make it worth doing - a stock tank works well and is not that expensive comparitively. cells can be better, particularly in enduros and for moving weight around, but have price and pickup issues that need to be overcome.
fuel cells vary widely in price depending on cerification and materials. that said, a "surge tank" with trap doors, such as the ATI "black box" helps in the later stages, particularly on long corners and in wide/shallow cells. it is not a requirement. also, pump / filters / etc... are usually NOT included in the purchase price. your stock or stock-like units can work, you simply need to devise a system to locate it in the cell. all matter or bulkhead fittings and wiring pass-throughs are available.
you will need to have a support system and straps, etc.. installed in the car unless you use the spare tire well molded parts, typically rotary molded as described above.
also keep in mind that the plumbing in the interior of the car (where it is likely to be) will need to be stainless braided unless it is fully obscured to the driver compartment by a bulkhead. as the 2nd gen 7 is in need of weight over the rear axle (or so I hear, I only play with pistons) this sort of mod should not scare you off, but might cost more than you are interested in spending - both in time and money.
the thing about cells is to ask questions, do your homework, and make it worth doing - a stock tank works well and is not that expensive comparitively. cells can be better, particularly in enduros and for moving weight around, but have price and pickup issues that need to be overcome.
ANTHROPOMORPHIC GLOBAL WARMING IS REAL!!! I'M REALLY, REALLY SERIAL!!!
http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23937
Andy Bettencourt
Super Moderator
SO to summarize:
GCR
I read it like this: All cars must be equipped with a fuel cell except certain classes. ALL fuel cells must be FIA FT-3 or higher.
IT cars MAY add one, with a restriction on it's location - but the certification has been defined.
What is grey (to me) is what the first line is saying. All cars must be equiped with a fuel cell - except X, Y, and Z classes - OR - All cars must be equipped with a fuel cell of XXX certification - except X, Y and Z classes (meaning those classes are exempt from said certification).
Effectively, if it's the latter, you could build your own cell. Want that? At the very least, it is NOT crystal clear to me even though I think it read like #1.
GCR
I read it like this: All cars must be equipped with a fuel cell except certain classes. ALL fuel cells must be FIA FT-3 or higher.
IT cars MAY add one, with a restriction on it's location - but the certification has been defined.
What is grey (to me) is what the first line is saying. All cars must be equiped with a fuel cell - except X, Y, and Z classes - OR - All cars must be equipped with a fuel cell of XXX certification - except X, Y and Z classes (meaning those classes are exempt from said certification).
Effectively, if it's the latter, you could build your own cell. Want that? At the very least, it is NOT crystal clear to me even though I think it read like #1.
dickita15
New member
Andy I could understand that reading except that the GCR also says:
9.3.26.4. Rotary Molded Cell
The use of rotary molded fuel cells not having a bladder, or not contained in a metal can, is allowable in those cars that do not require the use of a fuel cell, but where they are an allowed option.
Unless I am mistaken rotary molded cell do not meet FIA FT-3. So there would be no reason for that section is your first interpretation was true.
dickita15
New member
Scooter, you are right in most newer cars the stock tank works fine. In my first gen however the stock tank is much more vulnerable that in your car. Add to that the fact that rust free stock tanks for older cars are hard to come by. Now as a plus I was able to drop a couple of pounds and reduce sloshing it becomes worth the effort.