benspeed
New member
OK - so I've had a bunch of ITS friends wonder why the heck am I moving to GTA racing (which is not yet a NE sanctioned class). After burning up a huge sackful of money on my Mazda and running OK I was getting ready to go the BMW route. The E36 still seems to be the dominant car and after having driven a couple I was getting ready to burn up some more sackfuls of money. I had already looked at T1 and T2 which were even more expensive than ITS with less adjustability and more computer woes that I didn't want to deal with. I wanted to run nationals but I'm not towing to Kansas to visit Dorothy so I figured regional is good for the next 3 years and the ARRC is a darn good event to try and win (haven't been yet but I will someday).
Then I caught wind of some very cool and purpose built cars coming out of the ASA national touring series. Full blown stock cars for dirt cheap since the series went belly up and they are dead ringers for Nextel Cup cars only less HP, very light and very bullet proof.
I'll run the car in SPO for now - but I'm making a shameless plug to see if I can attract some folks to this new class.
Here's a great article on why this kind of racing is very, very attractive:
Why GTA?
by Butch Kummer - BK Racing
I’ve been road racing since 1984, always in a V-8 powered car. I started out with a converted street Corvette (what used to be known as B Production), progressed through a series of tube-framed GT-1 cars (all Corvettes) and now have a GTA car with Monte Carlo bodywork. Once you give up the hope of winning a National championship, GTA makes the most financial sense of all the V-8 classes available.
I prepared the following chart comparing the various V-8 cars eligible for SCCA road racing a couple of years ago, but it still appears to be valid. What’s NOT on the chart is a relative comparison of the operating costs of each class. While I don’t have hard numbers on all the classes, I can compare GT-1 and GTA since I have personal experience with both.
If you’re going to have a reasonable chance of running near the front of even a Regional GT-1 field, you better have at least 650 horsepower on tap. Keeping that many ponies happy (and all the moving parts residing within the block) is not only expensive to start with, you need to rebuild the engine every 5-10 hours depending on how tight you want to turn it. You also probably don’t want to do your own engine work with that much at stake, so each rebuild is in the $3500-$7000 range depending on what parts need to be replaced. Add in the stress that much power puts on the other drivetrain components (clutch, transmission and rear end) and the constant rebuilds necessary on them, and it easily costs $5000 a weekend to race a front-running GT-1 car even at a Regional level (multiply by two for a National effort). And that doesn’t count crash damage!
The GTA car, on the other hand, is limited to 7000 RPM and about 500 horsepower by a fairly rigid set of rules designed to limit costs. The traditional “carburetor” GTA engines use off-the-shelf engine parts designed for Saturday night circle track racing, which also keeps the price down. The relatively low RPM limit lets the engines last fifty (50) hours between rebuilds and each rebuild is in the $1500-$2000 range even using a professional builder (the ASA fuel-injected engines last even longer and run on 93-octane pump gas). And since we’re using components designed for 750 hp, the clutches, trannies and rear ends last a lot longer as well. We run on spec tires for $500 a set, so you’re looking at maybe $1500 a weekend to run at the front of GTA. And on those occasions you DO have an encounter with a hard object (not that such a thing would EVER happen to you <g>), the body panels for a GTA car are about 25% of equivalent GT-1 parts (again because of the circle track carryover).
The cars are more affordable and the racing is better between GTA cars than GT-1, but that doesn’t mean the GTA cars aren’t a handful. With 500 horsepower and 10” wide slicks, the cars make all the right noises and will still get sideways in a heartbeat if you’re not careful. A good Regional GT-1 car will run in the high 1:29’s at Road Atlanta while the top GTA cars run in the 1:33’s with a top end of over 160 mph. At Daytona we’ll run almost 180, so there’s absolutely NO lack of adrenaline rush when driving one of these cars.
I have no personal experience with American Sedan cars, but I DID consider getting one in the past. The reason I decided against them is because you’re required to use stock components rather than built-for-racing hardware, which means everything needs to be replaced more often. You can get into an AS for less than a GTA car, but I’m told you’ll have $30K in the car before it’s competitive and reliable even at a Regional level. And when you’re ready to sell, you still have a car that’s worth maybe $15K on the open market. Add in the cost of crash damage with a tub car and the fact that the GTA cars are faster than AS everywhere we run, then the ONLY reason to run AS is if you want to have a shot at winning the Runoffs.
Otherwise, GTA just makes cents…
V-8 Class Comparisons
GT-1
. priced from $25K to $150K, “decent” entry level is $50,000
Positives: Negatives:
- “glamour” class at all levels - high maintenance costs
- Runoffs eligible - easy to get outspent
- good participation at Nationals & SARRC
GTA
. priced from $20K to $55K, “decent” entry level is $25,000
Positives: Negatives:
- excellent bang for the buck - not Runoffs eligible
- good participation in SARRC - it’s a taxicab (not really a “sports car”)
- Pro series being discussed - limited sex appeal (no Corvettes)
- easy to maintain (short track technology)
- car retains value (spec car)
SPO
. priced from $20K to $400K, “decent” entry level is $40,000
Positives: Negatives:
- “glamour” class at Regionals - maintenance costs can be high
- wide variety of cars in class - possible to get outspent
- excellent participation in SARRC - not Runoffs eligible
- run at front for less than a GT-1 effort
AS (American Sedan)
. priced from $8K to $40K, “decent” entry level is $12,500
Positives: Negatives:
- decent participation at all levels - maintenance costs can be high
- Runoffs eligible - limited sex appeal (no Corvettes)
- relatively low entry level costs - uses 20-year old technology
- always runs with GT-1 in SEDIV
T-1
. priced from $35K to $80K, “decent” entry level is $40,000
Positives: Negatives:
- Runoffs eligible - poor participation in SARRC
- “glamour” cars (Corvettes & Vipers) - generally runs with GT-1 in SEDIV
- decent participation at Nationals - stock components with limited mods
- relatively low maintenance costs - high(er) crash damage repair costs
- subject to “next year’s trick car”
T-2
. priced from $10K to $50K, “decent” entry level is $15,000
Positives: Negatives:
- Runoffs eligible - poor participation in SEDIV
- relatively low maintenance costs - generally runs with GT-1 in SEDIV
- wider variety of cars - stock components with limited mods
(BMW, Porsche, Camaros, Toyotas) - high(er) crash damage repair costs
- subject to “next year’s trick car”
OK - so if any of you guys are interested check out this site:
www.v8stockcar.com
Without much trouble I located a full blown car for $12K and It'll cost me about $1000 to setup for road racing. Looking forward to watching some ITS races and helping my buds take temps and pressures - and now you can return the favor!
OK - now somebody who really wants to win in IT go look at my awesome ITS car in the classifieds and buy it. I make you special price.
Then I caught wind of some very cool and purpose built cars coming out of the ASA national touring series. Full blown stock cars for dirt cheap since the series went belly up and they are dead ringers for Nextel Cup cars only less HP, very light and very bullet proof.
I'll run the car in SPO for now - but I'm making a shameless plug to see if I can attract some folks to this new class.
Here's a great article on why this kind of racing is very, very attractive:
Why GTA?
by Butch Kummer - BK Racing
I’ve been road racing since 1984, always in a V-8 powered car. I started out with a converted street Corvette (what used to be known as B Production), progressed through a series of tube-framed GT-1 cars (all Corvettes) and now have a GTA car with Monte Carlo bodywork. Once you give up the hope of winning a National championship, GTA makes the most financial sense of all the V-8 classes available.
I prepared the following chart comparing the various V-8 cars eligible for SCCA road racing a couple of years ago, but it still appears to be valid. What’s NOT on the chart is a relative comparison of the operating costs of each class. While I don’t have hard numbers on all the classes, I can compare GT-1 and GTA since I have personal experience with both.
If you’re going to have a reasonable chance of running near the front of even a Regional GT-1 field, you better have at least 650 horsepower on tap. Keeping that many ponies happy (and all the moving parts residing within the block) is not only expensive to start with, you need to rebuild the engine every 5-10 hours depending on how tight you want to turn it. You also probably don’t want to do your own engine work with that much at stake, so each rebuild is in the $3500-$7000 range depending on what parts need to be replaced. Add in the stress that much power puts on the other drivetrain components (clutch, transmission and rear end) and the constant rebuilds necessary on them, and it easily costs $5000 a weekend to race a front-running GT-1 car even at a Regional level (multiply by two for a National effort). And that doesn’t count crash damage!
The GTA car, on the other hand, is limited to 7000 RPM and about 500 horsepower by a fairly rigid set of rules designed to limit costs. The traditional “carburetor” GTA engines use off-the-shelf engine parts designed for Saturday night circle track racing, which also keeps the price down. The relatively low RPM limit lets the engines last fifty (50) hours between rebuilds and each rebuild is in the $1500-$2000 range even using a professional builder (the ASA fuel-injected engines last even longer and run on 93-octane pump gas). And since we’re using components designed for 750 hp, the clutches, trannies and rear ends last a lot longer as well. We run on spec tires for $500 a set, so you’re looking at maybe $1500 a weekend to run at the front of GTA. And on those occasions you DO have an encounter with a hard object (not that such a thing would EVER happen to you <g>), the body panels for a GTA car are about 25% of equivalent GT-1 parts (again because of the circle track carryover).
The cars are more affordable and the racing is better between GTA cars than GT-1, but that doesn’t mean the GTA cars aren’t a handful. With 500 horsepower and 10” wide slicks, the cars make all the right noises and will still get sideways in a heartbeat if you’re not careful. A good Regional GT-1 car will run in the high 1:29’s at Road Atlanta while the top GTA cars run in the 1:33’s with a top end of over 160 mph. At Daytona we’ll run almost 180, so there’s absolutely NO lack of adrenaline rush when driving one of these cars.
I have no personal experience with American Sedan cars, but I DID consider getting one in the past. The reason I decided against them is because you’re required to use stock components rather than built-for-racing hardware, which means everything needs to be replaced more often. You can get into an AS for less than a GTA car, but I’m told you’ll have $30K in the car before it’s competitive and reliable even at a Regional level. And when you’re ready to sell, you still have a car that’s worth maybe $15K on the open market. Add in the cost of crash damage with a tub car and the fact that the GTA cars are faster than AS everywhere we run, then the ONLY reason to run AS is if you want to have a shot at winning the Runoffs.
Otherwise, GTA just makes cents…
V-8 Class Comparisons
GT-1
. priced from $25K to $150K, “decent” entry level is $50,000
Positives: Negatives:
- “glamour” class at all levels - high maintenance costs
- Runoffs eligible - easy to get outspent
- good participation at Nationals & SARRC
GTA
. priced from $20K to $55K, “decent” entry level is $25,000
Positives: Negatives:
- excellent bang for the buck - not Runoffs eligible
- good participation in SARRC - it’s a taxicab (not really a “sports car”)
- Pro series being discussed - limited sex appeal (no Corvettes)
- easy to maintain (short track technology)
- car retains value (spec car)
SPO
. priced from $20K to $400K, “decent” entry level is $40,000
Positives: Negatives:
- “glamour” class at Regionals - maintenance costs can be high
- wide variety of cars in class - possible to get outspent
- excellent participation in SARRC - not Runoffs eligible
- run at front for less than a GT-1 effort
AS (American Sedan)
. priced from $8K to $40K, “decent” entry level is $12,500
Positives: Negatives:
- decent participation at all levels - maintenance costs can be high
- Runoffs eligible - limited sex appeal (no Corvettes)
- relatively low entry level costs - uses 20-year old technology
- always runs with GT-1 in SEDIV
T-1
. priced from $35K to $80K, “decent” entry level is $40,000
Positives: Negatives:
- Runoffs eligible - poor participation in SARRC
- “glamour” cars (Corvettes & Vipers) - generally runs with GT-1 in SEDIV
- decent participation at Nationals - stock components with limited mods
- relatively low maintenance costs - high(er) crash damage repair costs
- subject to “next year’s trick car”
T-2
. priced from $10K to $50K, “decent” entry level is $15,000
Positives: Negatives:
- Runoffs eligible - poor participation in SEDIV
- relatively low maintenance costs - generally runs with GT-1 in SEDIV
- wider variety of cars - stock components with limited mods
(BMW, Porsche, Camaros, Toyotas) - high(er) crash damage repair costs
- subject to “next year’s trick car”
OK - so if any of you guys are interested check out this site:
www.v8stockcar.com
Without much trouble I located a full blown car for $12K and It'll cost me about $1000 to setup for road racing. Looking forward to watching some ITS races and helping my buds take temps and pressures - and now you can return the favor!
OK - now somebody who really wants to win in IT go look at my awesome ITS car in the classifieds and buy it. I make you special price.
