HANS... the other shoe's dropped

Z3_GoCar

Z3_GoCar

New member
I just found this here:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1723628

SFI SPEC 38.1 RECERTIFICATION - published: Sep 29, 2011

Dear Sanctioning Body Official:
A recent SFI Specification revision now requires that Head and Neck Restraint Devices which are certified to SFI Specification 38.1 be inspected and recertified every five (5) years, effective January 1, 2012. Any existing certified device with an SFI 38.1 conformance label must be sent back to the original manufacturer for inspection after five (5) years from the date of manufacture punched out on the label. Product inspection, maintenance, and/or replacement procedure will be per individual manufacturer. Inspection must be done by the original manufacturer only, and not their authorized resellers or [COLOR=blue !important][COLOR=blue !important]dealers[/COLOR].[/COLOR]

When a device is determined by the original manufacturer to be acceptable for continued use, that manufacturer will affix a new SFI 38.1 conformance label marked with the inspection date and it will be valid for use for another five (5) years from that date.

Sanctioning Bodies requiring 38.1 devices will begin enforcing the five (5) year recertification rule as of January 1, 2012

Best regards,
CARL V. OLSON
[COLOR=blue !important][COLOR=blue !important]Motorsports[/COLOR] Manager,[/COLOR]
SFI Foundation, Inc.
 
Well, now that the rules of the game have changed, perhaps we can get the BoD to reconsider implementation of Spec 38.1. I'll be writing my letter tomorrow...
 
after reading this, two things strike me:

SCCA requires racers to buy something that was made to 38.1. Nothing in the GCR as noted says it has to stay that way. no doubt they will change that.

but the part of "Dear Sanctioning Body Official" and then "you must enforce" at the end really sounds odd.
 
tom91ita said:
SCCA requires racers to buy something that was made to 38.1. Nothing in the GCR as noted says it has to stay that way. no doubt they will change that.
Click to expand...

Problem is, in order to truly be to the spec of 38.1, it is now inherent that it must be reinspected, or the certification is invalid. According to SFI, it needs that sticker to "meet" the requirements (it is apparently a load-bearing sticker). In order to have that sticker, it must be reinspected.

Current rule: "As of 1/1/12, head and neck restraints meeting SFI 38.1 or FIA 8858 will be
required."


tom91ita said:
but the part of "Dear Sanctioning Body Official" and then "you must enforce" at the end really sounds odd.
Click to expand...

I don't know, it sounds VERY much like I would expect from SFI, given what I have seen.


BTW- Interestingly enough- from the SFI website---

August 19, 2011 - Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) Club Racing recently sent out an email reminding its membership that beginning January 1, 2012, Head and Neck Restraint Devices meeting SFI Spec 38.1 will become mandatory in Club Racing Regional, National and Driver School events. In December 2009, the SCCA Board of Directors approved the motion to require a device meeting SFI 38.1 or FIA 8858 specifications, and the announcement appeared in the January 2010 issue of the SCCA publication Fastrack ® News.
The SCCA requirement specifically states in the rulebook, “As of 1/1/12, head and neck restraints meeting SFI 38.1 or FIA 8858 will be required.” The above mentioned email sent out by SCCA also went on to list certified devices which meet SFI 38.1 such as products currently produced by HANS and Safety Solutions.
SFI would like to add that there are also products from other manufacturers such as DefNder and Leatt Brace that were previously certified and labeled as meeting SFI 38.1. They are not currently listed on the SFI website because they are no longer in new production. However, any devices still in the field or at retail outlets that have SFI 38.1 stickers on them were properly tested and certified at the time. The certifications for those devices remain valid.

AND THEN----

September 28, 2011 - New Recertification Requirement for SFI 38.1 Head and Neck Restraint Devices
A recent SFI Specification revision now requires that Head and Neck Restraint Devices which are certified to SFI Specification 38.1 be inspected and recertified every five (5) years, effective January 1, 2012. Any existing certified device with an SFI 38.1 conformance label must be sent back to the original manufacturer for inspection after five (5) years from the date of manufacture punched out on the label. Product inspection, maintenance, and/or replacement procedure will be per individual manufacturer. Inspection must be done by the original manufacturer only, and not their authorized resellers or dealers.
When a device is determined by the original manufacturer to be acceptable for continued use, that manufacturer will affix a new SFI 38.1 conformance label marked with the inspection date and it will be valid for use for another five (5) years from that date.
Sanctioning Bodies requiring 38.1 devices will begin enforcing the five (5) year recertification rule as of January 1, 2012.

How would one go about getting a DefNder or Leatt Brace recertified? Will they still have a way to do so in 5 years? Will the companies be willing to do so, since they are obviously no longer willing to produce the product?

Of course, truly, this all could be a moot point, because if you select an FIA approved device, SFI and their requirements cease to matter at all.
 
It's too late.

Barn ----------------> Horse

Not to put too fine a point on it but y'all should have been worrying about this back when those annoying ISAAC black helicopter SFI conspiracy nuts were bitching up a storm.

K
 
The quote below is from the BMW club racing rules..comments? Chuck

Any HANS device must have a Silver and Blue SFI 38.1 Sticker and/or a Silver and Black FIA 8858-2002 sticker. The SFI sticker is punched with month and year. This sticker does not expire and is not replaced when the tethers are replaced. The HANS Device itself does not expire and the stickers are never replaced.
 
chuck baader said:
The quote below is from the BMW club racing rules..comments? Chuck

Any HANS device must have a Silver and Blue SFI 38.1 Sticker and/or a Silver and Black FIA 8858-2002 sticker. The SFI sticker is punched with month and year. This sticker does not expire and is not replaced when the tethers are replaced. The HANS Device itself does not expire and the stickers are never replaced.
Click to expand...

Chuck,

i think this is more like a rollercoaster than a city bus. once we get on the rollercoaster, there is no pulling the cord to say hey this is where i want to get off.....

if scca, etc. want to give up part of the 38.1 compliance, they need to re-write the rules to something like Dick had suggested to the BOD but was voted down. that is, the device has to meet the performance level of 38.1.
 
mossaidis said:
bingo... now, point me to the nearest FIA certified device. :)
Click to expand...

And thats the 'gotcha"
Lets just be straight here. The HANS people WROTE the SFI spec. They wrote it in a very narrow manner, so as to make it extremely difficult to create a design that HANS can't sue over. See DeFender, who had a product that HANS felt was a rip off, and has sued DeFender out of business, essentially.

So, simply put, HANS is in bed with SFI,
it's a racket.

But wait, it gets better.

"Go FIA!" you say?
Wonderful. That too is a HANS! You are still lining the devils pockets with gold.
"But it's better for me, and I'm what counts, My interests first" you say.
yea, I hear you.
But, isn't it RIDICULOUS that you can buy the SAME freakin thing from Bob, and it needs to be re-certified (New anchors and tethers, please hand over $100, thankyou) but Steve sells it to you and you are free from re-certifying?

It's all a bunch of BS, and sorry, that annoys me. SFI is here to take my money, first and foremost, and they cloak themselves as a "Safety Foundation" to make me feel good.

Well, I don't.
It's a racket.

This is yet another example of their business model. They 'discovered" that belts "fall apart" after 2 years, so now we replace them every two years. Yet none of us has seen two year old belts fall apart, there were no incidents where two year old belts were responsible for an injury. But hey, the belt manufacturers were "Nice enough" to share the "findings" with SFI, and the SFI did "the responsible thing in order to keep us safe" and we now buy belts at a rate of 2.5 times what we used to.

Geee, what angels those belt manufacturers are! They only more than DOUBLED their business!

It's a racket.

Now, this comes along. And in an of itself, it's not the end of the world.

But does anyone REALLY think this is it? When HANS saturates the market, sales will slow. That's BAD. (For HANS, AND SFI)
You KNOW a new SFI 38.1 is on the way. And with it will come language that means any sanctioning body mandating 38.1 will need to mandate 38.1v2014, and we will all get to buy new units. But hey, they will be better! We will all be safer!

it's a racket.
And we bought that racket when we let the camel sniff under the tent flap.
 
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mossaidis said:
bingo... now, point me to the nearest FIA certified device. :)
Click to expand...
No device can be manufactured to meet FIA 8858 without violating HANS' patent. The FIA spec describes a HANS specifically.

Funny, that.

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/9BD6FEA5A7446CECC125731500412ACF/$FILE/3_FIA_Stand_8858_2002_Hans.pdf
 
I could live with having to change tethers every 5 years, similar to seat belts. (although not excited about it)

Having to send it in so they can slap a sticker on it, just chaps my hide. Just put a label on the tethers like the seat belts have and call it a day.
 
...and if you think it won't be something else before 5 years is up, then you still aren't listening.

THIS IS SFI'S BUSINESS PLAN WORKING PRECISELY THE WAY IT WAS DESCRIBED TO ME IN THE LATE 1980'S.

Seriously. Quote whining and take it like a man, people.

K
 
how long before we see something like the following fictional press release

<sarcasm>

News Release from HANS

Effective 1/1/2012, all HANS devices sold will only have SFI 38.1 certification and will no longer be available with FIA certification.

Also, all HANS devices sent in for SFI recertification will have the FIA certification labeling removed.

</sarcasm>

:dead_horse:
 
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