Head & Shoulder Restraint Kit
- Thread starter jimalley
- Start date
Unless you add some pretty substantial support to those bolsters, they're not much help in a serious impact - while substantially reducing ease of egress.
I have a Kirkey Economy seat (which I've crashed a few times)... and I chose to add a center net instead (from Safety Solutions). Cheaper, easier, and far more effective.
I have a Kirkey Economy seat (which I've crashed a few times)... and I chose to add a center net instead (from Safety Solutions). Cheaper, easier, and far more effective.
Jim....If the Kirkey head and sholder restraints are anything like the Butler Halo system(and I think they are) they should be a welcome addition to your safety items! Just look at the shunts they have in NASCAR(like the one at Daytona where the woman walked away from an upside down crash and series of flips last week). As regards exit from the vehicle, as they say down south "if you ain't alive, ya'll ain't goin nowhere anyway".
Practice your exit with halos...it may not be pretty but you'll make it out if the halo saved your life to start!
dickita15
New member
Actually head movement is what the right side net is all about. It is set up to catch your shoulder and helmet so they stop movement in the same plane if you get a big right side hit. When I asked around a few years ago I was told that nothing gives you better protection for such a cheap price. I have actually been thinking about one of those sprint car nets for the left side.
Actually, the center net should be installed to spread from the shoulder to the CG of the helmet, catching both. I used to have a pic on my website showing this, lemme see if I can find it...
Some pics here...
http://vaughanscott.com/construction/safety.htm
OK, not a perfect picture, but should give an idea about the install config.
Note that I'm not fully cinched down in the seat yet - will sit a bit lower than even that. Plus the camera angle's a little high. When I lean over to the net, it does contact my helmet.
I've "used" it in this config, too, having been t-boned by a Volvo at the ARRC in '08. Worked like a charm, drove it away and completed the race.
Stop thinking about it, and do it!!! There's NO excuse!!! They're dirt cheap compared to the improvement in safety - just like upgrading from the stock 3-pt belts to a proper 6-pt setup!
Lets see now. For 2011 all SCCA drivers SHALL wear a SFI 38.1 H&N restraint. With the Isaac I own not SFI rated I'll buy (not happily) a Defnder which frontal load equals the Isaac & HANS while also greatly reducing the lateral load which the HANS does not do. No right side net required.
It's a laugh that the CRB/BoD recomends a right side net while not allowing the Isaac because of the one release rule.
Yes I understand the window net rule to keep the arms inside the car. < This rule came long before the H&N restraint.
Dito on the silly unsuported head "restraint flaps" that may be added to the seat. Watch one video of the head during a crash you'll understand. The flaps resist minimal lateral load.
It's a laugh that the CRB/BoD recomends a right side net while not allowing the Isaac because of the one release rule.
Yes I understand the window net rule to keep the arms inside the car. < This rule came long before the H&N restraint.Dito on the silly unsuported head "restraint flaps" that may be added to the seat. Watch one video of the head during a crash you'll understand. The flaps resist minimal lateral load.
I do like the looks of the Defender; if I were staying in my IT car, I'd likely be shopping for one come 2012. As it is, since I'm moving to a DSR, I'll either be seeing if I can make a Safety Solutions device work or, be forced to get a HANS.
But there's a key point. Any of these devices with lateral restraining capability - ISAAC, Defender, or some of the S2 devices - can only work on the position of the head relative to the shoulders. In order for restraint to happen, the shoulders must first be stopped. This is the same situation as a straight-ahead impact; the hips must be stopped before the shoulders can be stopped, before the head can be stopped (by a H+N device). So you need good tight belts, and that's why 6-pts or 7-pts are better than 5 - they do a better job of restraining the pelvis.
So in order to get the full benefit of a side-impact protective H+N, you must first have something that will stop the shoulders. A side net will do this, or a containment seat. But as already stated, I much prefer the cost-effectiveness (and other factors) of the nets.
But there's a key point. Any of these devices with lateral restraining capability - ISAAC, Defender, or some of the S2 devices - can only work on the position of the head relative to the shoulders. In order for restraint to happen, the shoulders must first be stopped. This is the same situation as a straight-ahead impact; the hips must be stopped before the shoulders can be stopped, before the head can be stopped (by a H+N device). So you need good tight belts, and that's why 6-pts or 7-pts are better than 5 - they do a better job of restraining the pelvis.
So in order to get the full benefit of a side-impact protective H+N, you must first have something that will stop the shoulders. A side net will do this, or a containment seat. But as already stated, I much prefer the cost-effectiveness (and other factors) of the nets.
***you must first have something that will stop the shoulders. A side net will do this***
Vaughan, safety is priority so don't take this the wrong way. Where did you find the data to back up your above statement, "a side net will do this".
IMHJ, you way over estimate the capabilities of a right hand side net.
I'll take my Ultra Shield Pro road race seat, six point harness with a Defnder long before I'll skip the Defnder & use a right hand side net.
***So you need good tight belts,***
I would like to believe this ^ is normal process for all racers.
Vaughan, safety is priority so don't take this the wrong way. Where did you find the data to back up your above statement, "a side net will do this".
IMHJ, you way over estimate the capabilities of a right hand side net.I'll take my Ultra Shield Pro road race seat, six point harness with a Defnder long before I'll skip the Defnder & use a right hand side net.
***So you need good tight belts,***
I would like to believe this ^ is normal process for all racers.
***you must first have something that will stop the shoulders. A side net will do this***
Vaughan, safety is priority so don't take this the wrong way. Where did you find the data to back up your above statement, "a side net will do this".
I'll take my Ultra Shield Pro road race seat, six point harness with a Defnder long before I'll skip the Defnder & use a right hand side net.
***So you need good tight belts,***
I would like to believe this ^ is normal process for all racers.
No problem. That comes direct from Tom Gideon, GM Racing, in a presentation some years back to the Waterford club. Direct from their (Corvette/GM Racing) crash testing.
He talked about lots of other really cool stuff they did too, but that was the big hitter, particularly with regard to cost-effectiveness.
Head Supports
OK. Let's quit dogging safety equipment here. Yes, the old "bent aluminum" head supports are not any safer than nothing. But to say that ALL aluminum head supports used in conjunction with the proper shoulder supports are unsafe is simply false. We have learned a lot about restraining the body in recent years and a right side net and aluminum head rest/shoulder rest containment system that is strong enough and installed properly can work so much better than one or the other. If you only have a right side net, how far does your head have to move to reach it? 6 inches? 8 inches? Not to mention how far your shoulder pushes it away before it is taught enough to hold you put. But a right side net used in CONJUNCTION with the full-containment head and shoulder system can extend the effective restraint area and should be done. There is nothing in a seat belt system designed to hold the torso in laterally, so something else needs to be added. Something is better than nothing, but with the proper lateral restraints then a HANS device or other sfi 38.1 device can do it's job, which is restraining the head in a FRONTAL crash. I've worked for 2 drivers that were killed in stock car crashes, and fortunately was on different teams when that happened because I don't think I could have lived knowing there was more I should be doing to prepare a safe car. There is science behind good safety equipment, not opinion. Follow the science and you will be safer.
OK. Let's quit dogging safety equipment here. Yes, the old "bent aluminum" head supports are not any safer than nothing. But to say that ALL aluminum head supports used in conjunction with the proper shoulder supports are unsafe is simply false. We have learned a lot about restraining the body in recent years and a right side net and aluminum head rest/shoulder rest containment system that is strong enough and installed properly can work so much better than one or the other. If you only have a right side net, how far does your head have to move to reach it? 6 inches? 8 inches? Not to mention how far your shoulder pushes it away before it is taught enough to hold you put. But a right side net used in CONJUNCTION with the full-containment head and shoulder system can extend the effective restraint area and should be done. There is nothing in a seat belt system designed to hold the torso in laterally, so something else needs to be added. Something is better than nothing, but with the proper lateral restraints then a HANS device or other sfi 38.1 device can do it's job, which is restraining the head in a FRONTAL crash. I've worked for 2 drivers that were killed in stock car crashes, and fortunately was on different teams when that happened because I don't think I could have lived knowing there was more I should be doing to prepare a safe car. There is science behind good safety equipment, not opinion. Follow the science and you will be safer.
Huh? Who said that?? Did I miss something?
For the record - I do agree with what you're saying... 'cept that SFI reference.
