MegaSquirt PNP for Miatas

T

tnord

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http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasquirtpnp-c-40.html?osCsid=4c9f6d9ce652df3e3c3280033cd2a1cd

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is there anyone out there using these things for their miata?

1) how easy is the interface to use?
2) how close is the tune that's pre-loaded? how many hours on the dyno to optimize?
3) does this solution give up anything to something fancier like a Haltech or whatever...
4) does it work better on any miata iteration than the other? (90-93 vs 94-95 vs 96-97)
5) is there anything like this available for the 99-00?
 
If any of you guys are looking for plug and play units we can provide a Haltech system for any of the Miatas or RX-7s. Most of the Hondas, Toyotas, and Nissans too for that matter. The price point is higher than that of the MS but you gain a lot of resolution, flexibility, and datalogging power over the MS units. Our E8 and E11 units are also CAN capable for anyone that may have or want to add a dash/logger unit with CAN input. Meaning with one connection the dash will display all the info the ECU is seeing/using.

To answer the earlier question on how long it should take to tune a system, if you are starting with a clean slate tune and need to work through fuel and ignition and have absolutely no idea where to start on either an experienced tuner should be able to work through the calibration in 3-6 hours. Some of that will depend on how the cooling system responds and how capable the fans of the dyno are at keeping the engine cool. Some shops and cars just don't cool well and you spend more time letting the engine cool than tuning. If you have a good base map and a good idea of where you need the timing you should be able to work through everything in around 2-3 hours. A very strongly supported adage in the world of standalone systems is to go with the system your tuner knows. While all systems really do the same thing when it comes down to it and IMO if you can work with one system you should be able to work with any of them, there are idiosyncrasies of each system that makes it prudent to have experience with that system before jumping in. And you don't want to spend time on a dyno learning the software interface. BTW, I'm available to travel for tuning and installation. ;)
 
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thanks rob. i was hoping to get more IT specific information since i bet 98% of people with a MS are running some sort of boost. i'll browse through those sites and see if i can at least figure out how the thing works, and if it's something i want to tackle.

Chris -
I'm sure your units are great, and the single point connection for the data aq display is uber-cool. I'm not a guy with deep pockets though, and i'm guessing these systems are in the multiple thousands of dollar range. Thanks for your estimates on tuning time as well, the 2-3hr figure is kinda what i had in my head.
 
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I was ready to put one of those in my car before I sold it. Mac Spikes has one for his 1.8 I believe.

Contact DIYAutoTune and they'll give you the details on the non-boosted cars they've installed these in. DIY are very close to my house and I know at least 10 cars that have these units installed, all LOVE them, all made big non-boosted power by installing them.

IMHO installing one of these is as close to a no-brainer as you can get ESPECIALLY if you have a 1.8 with a legal OEM chip and are running with the crappy air-fuel mixture you get stock.

I know they were working on a '99 version, don't know the status.
 
tnord said:
1) how easy is the interface to use?
2) how close is the tune that's pre-loaded? how many hours on the dyno to optimize?
3) does this solution give up anything to something fancier like a Haltech or whatever...
4) does it work better on any miata iteration than the other? (90-93 vs 94-95 vs 96-97)
5) is there anything like this available for the 99-00?
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How easy the interface is would depend upon what you are use to. Ive heard a lot of gusy praise MegaTune, others hate it. You can download the tuning software and stuff though.

The map that is comes with it pretty conservative and thats for a good reason. I wouldn't think it would take very long to get it dialed in.

It really depends what you are looking for exactly. We have engine datalogging, and a number of other features. I'm not really sure what Hal-tech offers though, or how they compare.

There isn't really one that it stands out for, but that might not been what you are asking.

Nothing out for the 99-00 yet.


the MT forums would be a good place to get reviews, as there are a good mix of MSPNP users, and the hardcore DIY guys. You should be able to get some good information there.
 
thanks Colin.

i know Mac has one, but I know Mac pretty well, and i HIGHLY doubt that good-ol-boy has any clue how it works. :D

i've heard some power figures on 1.8 cars also and was floored. you're right....it's a no brainer. what i don't know is how big of gains the 1.6 cars see over just messing with the AFM. thanks for the data points on the people that have them installed and are happy. i'll probably contact DIY once i get a car, for right now i'm just trying to determine which is the best miata iteration to go with.
 
Travis-- Jerry from DIYAutoTune here.. Definitely make your own decision here, and there is something to be said for using a system your tuner knows, though the MS interface is extremely easy to use. Mac Spikes is actually running an MSPNP on his IT car, you could chat him up.

You're right alot of the guys running these are running boost, but that's simply as that's the forums we hung out on a bunch and borrowed beta testers from during development. That and we have a 250+ whp boost 91 Miata running an MSPNP. We also have a fairly mild N/A 95 Miata running an MSPNP. Both run great and the 95 picked up power with a good tune too. The 96/97 test cars we borrowed for that models dev process responded well too of course. Bottom line, it's a great product and the price is tough to beat. The base map is a great starting point, very driveable unless you're modded to the gills, and makes tuning a breeze. I have to agree with the above, tuning time varies with any EMS, and one of the biggest factors is how cool does it stay while on the dyno. In some cases (many in fact) you'll spend more time waiting for the car to cool down than you do tuning, that costs you money. I'm guessing your car has a fairly adequate cooling system though, and in general Miata's aren't that bad off in my experience. For the racer crowd that I know is running adequate fuel, I can even give you some pointers to end up with a very solid ignition map quick, only needing minor touch on the dyno. We have a Dynapack in house, and basically tuned the ignition map optimally, and then pulled 3 degrees across all load ranges from 2300rpms on up to redline. This was on pump93 fuel. If you're running pump93 or better you should be able to drop this back in and be 90% there, just letting your tuner fine tune from there based on the fuel you're running and your engines unique needs. They will of course need to go through your entire fuel table, but that takes no time at all.

Any questions... just let us know.
 
I can't speak for the Megatune/Squirt specifically. However, our team spent several hours with Jerry on DIY's Dynapack before last year's ARRC, tuning the NX2000. Jerry right jumped in there and helped us fine-tune the Calumsult-based NX; he and Kevin Hart picked up on that software almost like they knew it already, and Jerry's very sharp on what it takes to make an engine run right.

Jerry knows of what he speaks, and all the employees of DIY were extremely pleasant and helpful. I was impressed with their operation and wouldn't hesitate for a moment to spend money with them.

Greg Amy
 
Jerry -

Thanks so much for popping in on this discussion.

first off, "my tuner" is probably going to be me, and i've never messed with this stuff before, so i'm starting with a blank slate and an open mind as to what's the best option. yes, i do know which dyno i'll be taking it to, but his dyno business is not his full-time job, so i'm not really expecting him to setup this system for me.

i have lots of questions, but i'll save most of them for a phone conversation after i get a car. a couple i do have are if there will be a PNP system for the 99-00 miata in the near future, and if the ECU has the ability to store multiple tunes for say......multiple fuel types?

thanks.
 
We don't have a 99-00 model in the works just yet. We plan to make it happen but decided to focus on some other cars for a bit and come back around to Miatas. We've got two models in the works now, and the 99-00 Miata is slated to be next more than likely.

On your second question, you can store as many maps as you'd like on your PC in the form of .msq files that can be loaded in about 10 seconds. Takes longer to plug your laptop in, and that only takes a few seconds itself. Whole process can be done in a minute or two.
 
Jerry - I just sent you a PM with some questions, but sometimes people forget to enable PM with their account here, so just letting you know to check.

cheers,
 
tnord said:
what kind of timeframe are you thinking for the 99-00? like 6mos? 1yr? 3yrs?
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Hard to say with a solid degree of accuracy. A year seems fair, I'd like it to be sooner, but I wouldn't advise you to hold out exactly 12 months expecting it to be ready to ship. We haven't started yet and have two MSPNP projects in front of it, and a few other projects in the works too. I'm working on cranking up the R&D work here though to make things come together faster than they have as of late... I'm stretched too thin to do it all. Matt to the rescue ;).
 
For what it's worth.........I would call Chris and have him take care of business. The reason I say this is because, after a number of years chasing various gremlins, losing race weekends, and wasting money, I took my car to him and had the Haltech installed and had him tune it. The cost was to go to two less race weekends in a season. Last weekend was the first time out with it, and I learned that the car is now well better than the driver. In the 8 years I have owned it, the car has not run better.

Racing is now fun again.
 
Travis,

We have one. It only took a little bit to get it to work. for IT, out of the box, the tune is pretty far off. I've got about 3 hours on a dyno doing spart tables.

Install was painless.

I've never gotten it "RIGHT". I had what I thought was a good tune on the dyno, but on track the car was a total dog. The stock ECU and some afm adjutments was a lot better to the butt dyno than the work on the Chassis. I think my error is in spark but...

Blew the motor up so we haven't gotten back to finishing making it work.

STRONGLY recommend going with a wideband hookup, and I wish I'd thought twice about having datalogging for it.

Jerry's guys have been fairly helpful via email. I think they'd be more helpful if I was smarter and asked more articulate questions (not a dig on them, I just think I'm too stupid to educate).

I think it would be worth paying someone who knows how to tune it to teach you the basics at the dyno with your car, etc.

S
 
avu3 said:
I think it would be worth paying someone who knows how to tune it to teach you the basics at the dyno with your car, etc.
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Those last words say it all. For the hardcore DIY crew I encourage exploring and using the MS to learn to tune too. For the race crew though... you need it right, right now. You need it dialed in to perfection on a LOAD BEARING, STEADY STATE dyno. Not a DynoJet or any other inertia dyno that's going to put unrealistic levels of load on the car causing you to tune wacky WOT advance levels, and not allow you to tune the partial throttle areas of the table at all. I'm not sure what kind of dyno avu3's car was tuned on, but I'm going to guess it was inertia only and ended up with way too much advance and very likely too little fuel, the combination of which will cause both a loss of power and detonation. A pro tuner can fudge his way through tuning WOT advance on a inertia dyno reasonably well though some guesswork is still involved, it's nothing compared to a proper steady state dyno with a good tuner. Not to mention they can tune your WHOLE table.

From a engine control standpoint, the MSPNP gives you all the capability you'll ever need. It just needs to be tuned for your engine. The base map was tuned for a stock motor, you'll have to retweak based on your setup. But the base map shouldn't be that far out. I'd be glad to help one of you guys set one up right for your car. It's easy to do and we've got the equipment. Mac-- when are you in town next?
 
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