Mid-Ohio Sept 11-12
- Thread starter Eagle7
- Start date
Marty, copied from the Prod site including Kein Allen comments.
Track Notes: Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course - Andy Lally
6/5/2001 - Although originally released in 2000, this description of how to drive Mid Ohio is still very useful reading.
In 1999 Andy Lally was chosen as one of the top young formula car drivers in America by a panel of distinguished racers including Dan Gurney, Jimmy Vasser, Jeremy Shaw and Bryan Herta among others. Andy earned the prestigious Valvoline Team USA scholarship and the opportunity to compete in Europe in the Formula Palmer Audi Winter Series. He represented his country well finishing 5th overall in the championship series beating among others, the 1998 and 1999 Barber Pro Series Champion.
Setting Up Your Car at Mid Ohio
A quick word about Mid Ohio on the technical side for those of you who have never driven there and will be setting up your car for the weekend. Mid Ohio is unlike most of the tracks that we drive on in regard to set up. There are many things you will need to pay attention to in both your driving style and car set up that are critical to going fast here. With so many different types of corners there will never be one great set up on the car that will work all the way around the track, and it will be important to remember not to over drive the car in the areas that your car is not working in just right in.
Like almost every track in the country being smooth is important but in the back section of Mid Ohio establishing a rhythm is also important. From turn 7 to turn 14 the car is almost always in transition, back and forth though a series of mid speed corners that are connected by short straights that don't give the driver much time to recover if he/she gets offline. It is important to get used to the track and find that rhythm before you start making big adjustments to the car. That being said, don't be afraid to make changes once you are comfortable with the car. With so many different types of cars ranging from front to rear and even all wheel drive and with the different weight limits it is hard to suggest any specific changes that might help. Two areas that I would suggest focusing on is 1) finding a way to make your car rotate in the slow, tight corners like the hair pin and the key hole without disturbing the car in the fast sweepers like turn one and turn 13 and 2) Also pay attention to wheel spin, there are 3 corners at Mid Ohio with elevation drops in the middle of a corner, 2 off them are in places where you want to be adding power. If you can manage to take care of both of these problems with out having the car be a handful everywhere else you will be in good shape.
Driving A Lap At Mid-Ohio
TURN ONE As you approach turn 1 at mid Ohio you are going under a bridge and cannot see your apex or exit points until just before turn in. For some of the lighter cars with less horsepower you will be able to retain most of this speed through the corner as it should just be a small lift. The bigger cars will have a harder time with it obviously and will most likely need some brakes entering the corner, no cars should need to downshift. As you come under the Bridge you see a long 90-degree left hander that will most likely be 4th gear for everybody. It is a flat entry and apex with a slight uphill exit with usable exit curbing. I would not suggest however touching the apex curbing. There are not a lot of reference points for your turn in but you will find some patches and irregularities in the inside curbing that you may be able to use to locate an apex a little easier, being such a fast corner, though you will be looking far ahead of these points once you get up to speed. The exit of turn 1 leads onto a fairly long, uphill straight. Exit speed is crucial here and giving up a little on entry to make sure you get a good run into one of the best passing zones on the track is the smartest way through this corner.
TURN TWO Coming up to turn 2, a.k.a. the "Keyhole" is just what it looks like, a very tricky, right hand, 180 degree plus, double apex, tight corner with a concrete patch through 75% of it that leads onto the longest straight and the best passing zone on the track. The fast line is not apparent just by referencing a track map due to the changing elevation in the first half of the corner. An uphill braking zone lets you take the car in a little deeper than you may think it can go. Trailing the brakes into this corner is important because you want to have a good bit of weight on the nose of the car. About 1/3 of the way through the keyhole, just past the first apex, the track drops away a few feet just as you want to pick up the throttle to exit the corner, at the same time the radius of the corner is decreasing almost always ending with the driver complaining of a exit understeer. Pay attention to where you are picking up the throttle in relation to where the drop in elevation occurs, being patient in this corner is a plus and going to full power before the drop in elevation and staying there is almost impossible. You will have to wait on the car here. To a point, the harder you charge into this corner the more it may help you come off the corner. By getting the weight onto the front of the car it will help maintain some front grip while cresting the hill, doing this, followed by a pause to let the car rotate will really let you get off the corner well. The time you make up bringing additional entry speed into the corner will most likely be nullified by the extra long pause, but the time you make coming off the corner will pay off well as you go down the long downhill back straight. Back tracking a little bit here, I mentioned a very early first apex, this is basically the first bit of curbing that you see on the entry to the corner, and is just about one car length before the crest of the hill, after hitting the apex do not come more than 3-4 feet off the curbing. You are only coming off the curbing in anticipation of your pause to help the car rotate, then immediately get the inside tires back under the concrete patch, there is only about 12 inches of asphalt between the curbing and the concrete and it is important that your inside tires are on the asphalt but not on the curbing. You may abuse the tires a bit more on the entry of the corner this way but it will be much better for them at the exit of the corner.
TURN SEVEN The next turn on the track is called turn 7 (yes, we skipped a bunch of turn numbers but that is because we are not running the chicane that is just after turn 1). This is the left hand 90 degree right hand corner with a downhill entry, apex and exit. The turn does not flatten out until about one car length or so after the exit point. There is a short straight to TURN EIGHT since a lot of how you enter turn 8 depends on how bad you messed up 7. This is one of those corners I always feel that I have left a little something on the table. The 7-8 combination starts with a downhill turn in. I trail the brakes slightly on entry but try to "roll'" a lot of speed into the corner, since there is no long straight after this corner getting on the power early is not critical. You want to carry the most possible speed into and past the apex as you can. This might not mean jumping on the brakes at the last possible moment but maybe just releasing the brake pressure a little earlier than you might think and roll the car into the corner scrubbing the speed off with the tires, this helps because being that the corner is downhill, if you come into it with to much weight on the front end it will disturb your turn in, releasing some pressure earlier than what you may think will settle some off the excess weight on the front back to the rear of the car. You will apex just about the center of the corner and like most of the other corners on this track you really don't want to touch the apex curbing. Let the car out all the way to the edge of the track and do not even think about scrubbing any speed off to try and get the car back to the right for the next left hand corner.
TURN 8 is an uphill entry, left hand corner, where just past the apex is a steep, but short downhill run leading to turn 9 , since you are still very much on the left side of the track since your exit from 7, you will be entering the turn 8 corner basically just following the inside curbing, you might be able to pull the car back a little to the right before entering and that may be slightly beneficial but only because you have not come through 7 fast enough. On turn in for 8 there is a pause to help the car rotate before cresting the hill, you want to have most of your turning done early so that you can concentrate on putting the power down coming over the hill, another reason to get your turning done early is that the track falls away on the outside of the downhill run to 9 and since it is such a short run to next corner you don't track out all the way so that you can have the car back to the left and fairly settled.
TURN 9-10-10a Turn nine is a right hand, downhill entry that flattens out just before turn in, almost 90 degrees and there is a little bit of camber that you can hug your right side tires on just before the apex. It is a slightly early apex corner because you get good compression coming down the hill. Use up all the road you can on the exit even though you are leading directly into a fairly simple set of esses marked 10 and 10a. When you track out of 9 you will almost immediately turn left for an uphill, flat out corner(10), most likely 3rd gear for everyone. You have the first bit of usable apex curbing on the inside of 10 as you go under the second of three bridges around Mid Ohio, use this curbing and hug the car inside so that you are set up for 10a properly, you should be able to go flat through 10 with out having to track the car out, when cresting the hill for the right hand sweeper (10a) that is about 70 degrees, it is a simple corner with a downhill entry that levels out at the exit. Again there is another corner waiting for you just as you exit. It is a very important corner on the track and one of the most difficult corners in the country. It is a right hand corner. Because it is a right hander we will want to stay a little high in 10a and not come all the way down to the apex. This helps the platform of the car to be a bit more level at the exit of the corner, we want the car level so that when it goes into the braking zone for turn 11 the car is a bit more stable.
TURN 11 a fast, third gear, right hand corner totaling about 90 degrees. There is an uphill entry with a blind exit. It is a slightly early apex corner because of the usefulness the hill will be in making grip. About one car length past the apex of the corner is a sharp decline in elevation, It is only about 4-5 feet but is a very quick drop. There is a big cement wall only two feet on the other side of the exit curbing and you should consider yourself lucky to make a mistake here and not pay big time for it. Make sure you have the car fairly settled here when cresting this hill, straighten out the steering wheel a little and let the car "land" smoothly. To much steering here will most certainly turn into a snap spin on the exit as the weight finally comes back onto the front before it gets to the rear. A quick note about the early apex I mentioned here, it really may not look like an early apex corner but there is grip in the hill, waiting on this corner and making it a late turn in is the safe way through but you will lose big time. The run out of this corner is an uphill straight, about 1/8 mile with a slight bend in it that is considered turn 12. It is not a very steep up hill run but enough that your exit speed from 11 makes a big deal in regard to the momentum you gain going up the hill. Stay on the left going up the hill and when you make your turn through the turn 12 sweeper keep the car all the way on the right side to set up for turn 13.
TURN 13 is an uphill entry with usable ENTRY curbing, get your wheels onto this curbing and you will allow yourself and extra 2 feet of turn in. This is a wild corner that flattens out and has a few bumps in it across the apex. There are a couple of different entry lines to try into this corner, starting from fairly early to a mid apex, and most line changes are made due to how the car is set up for the rest of the track as well as how well your car will goes over the bumps. Being that it is an uphill corner it leans to a slightly early apex but you will find you are running over more bumps there, a small adjustment to a later apex should move you around those bumps if they are to much to handle. The exit of 13 falls off to the outside and using the exit curbing on a routine basis is surely not recommended. Much like turn 7, if you come through this corner fast enough you will not be able to get the car back to the left to set up for the carousel in time. That's OK.
TURN 14 a long, 180 degree, right hand corner that has an immediate left turn that leads you back onto the front straight and across the start finish line. You will enter 14 from the middle right side of the track and double apex this corner much like the Keyhole. The only difference here is that the drop into this corner comes even sooner than in the keyhole, you will be braking over the drop in elevation appearing at the crest of the hill. Trail the brakes into the corner and come away from the curbing a full car width. You will need to make a big pause to let the car settle and rotate. Add the power on smooth and almost touch the last third of the curbing. Don't let the car track out more than just past the middle of the track so that the turn onto to the front straight is made without scrubbing off too much speed, this is important and if it is not possible either make a bigger pause or an adjustment to the car to help it through. The last little left hander should be easily flat. Turn 14 will most likely be 2nd gear with a shift to third just before coming onto the front straight. The exit of the last corner will bring you about 100 yards from the start finish line.
Mid Ohio In The Rain
This is a VERY slippery track in the rain. It has a very polished surface mainly due to all of the Indy car testing done here. Without a doubt you need to stay off the dry line under braking and keep away from the cement patches in the corners. The elevation changes just add to the confusion. The rain line might change through out a race or session depending on just how wet it is. Keep an eye out and pay attention to other areas of track that you are not driving on to see if you can actually spot any differences, they might be worth a try.
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Per Kevin Allen
I would call Andy's description dead nuts, if you are new to M-O, print it and take it with you. After every session, sit down and drive some laps in your head, looking for reference points, making notes on your description page and on a track map, when you can drive a lap in your head and see all the points you use on the track and feel all the elevation changes and how they affect your car then you are getting close.
Mid-Ohio is a great track, but very involved. Also I cannot say enough about the school video, get it and drive your spouse nuts watching it.
Cheers
Been there once & it's a fun track. Don't make a decision after your first session. Read the above as many times as required & walk the track for elevation changes, off camber & blue apex dots.
Have Fun
David
Track Notes: Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course - Andy Lally
6/5/2001 - Although originally released in 2000, this description of how to drive Mid Ohio is still very useful reading.
In 1999 Andy Lally was chosen as one of the top young formula car drivers in America by a panel of distinguished racers including Dan Gurney, Jimmy Vasser, Jeremy Shaw and Bryan Herta among others. Andy earned the prestigious Valvoline Team USA scholarship and the opportunity to compete in Europe in the Formula Palmer Audi Winter Series. He represented his country well finishing 5th overall in the championship series beating among others, the 1998 and 1999 Barber Pro Series Champion.
Setting Up Your Car at Mid Ohio
A quick word about Mid Ohio on the technical side for those of you who have never driven there and will be setting up your car for the weekend. Mid Ohio is unlike most of the tracks that we drive on in regard to set up. There are many things you will need to pay attention to in both your driving style and car set up that are critical to going fast here. With so many different types of corners there will never be one great set up on the car that will work all the way around the track, and it will be important to remember not to over drive the car in the areas that your car is not working in just right in.
Like almost every track in the country being smooth is important but in the back section of Mid Ohio establishing a rhythm is also important. From turn 7 to turn 14 the car is almost always in transition, back and forth though a series of mid speed corners that are connected by short straights that don't give the driver much time to recover if he/she gets offline. It is important to get used to the track and find that rhythm before you start making big adjustments to the car. That being said, don't be afraid to make changes once you are comfortable with the car. With so many different types of cars ranging from front to rear and even all wheel drive and with the different weight limits it is hard to suggest any specific changes that might help. Two areas that I would suggest focusing on is 1) finding a way to make your car rotate in the slow, tight corners like the hair pin and the key hole without disturbing the car in the fast sweepers like turn one and turn 13 and 2) Also pay attention to wheel spin, there are 3 corners at Mid Ohio with elevation drops in the middle of a corner, 2 off them are in places where you want to be adding power. If you can manage to take care of both of these problems with out having the car be a handful everywhere else you will be in good shape.
Driving A Lap At Mid-Ohio
TURN ONE As you approach turn 1 at mid Ohio you are going under a bridge and cannot see your apex or exit points until just before turn in. For some of the lighter cars with less horsepower you will be able to retain most of this speed through the corner as it should just be a small lift. The bigger cars will have a harder time with it obviously and will most likely need some brakes entering the corner, no cars should need to downshift. As you come under the Bridge you see a long 90-degree left hander that will most likely be 4th gear for everybody. It is a flat entry and apex with a slight uphill exit with usable exit curbing. I would not suggest however touching the apex curbing. There are not a lot of reference points for your turn in but you will find some patches and irregularities in the inside curbing that you may be able to use to locate an apex a little easier, being such a fast corner, though you will be looking far ahead of these points once you get up to speed. The exit of turn 1 leads onto a fairly long, uphill straight. Exit speed is crucial here and giving up a little on entry to make sure you get a good run into one of the best passing zones on the track is the smartest way through this corner.
TURN TWO Coming up to turn 2, a.k.a. the "Keyhole" is just what it looks like, a very tricky, right hand, 180 degree plus, double apex, tight corner with a concrete patch through 75% of it that leads onto the longest straight and the best passing zone on the track. The fast line is not apparent just by referencing a track map due to the changing elevation in the first half of the corner. An uphill braking zone lets you take the car in a little deeper than you may think it can go. Trailing the brakes into this corner is important because you want to have a good bit of weight on the nose of the car. About 1/3 of the way through the keyhole, just past the first apex, the track drops away a few feet just as you want to pick up the throttle to exit the corner, at the same time the radius of the corner is decreasing almost always ending with the driver complaining of a exit understeer. Pay attention to where you are picking up the throttle in relation to where the drop in elevation occurs, being patient in this corner is a plus and going to full power before the drop in elevation and staying there is almost impossible. You will have to wait on the car here. To a point, the harder you charge into this corner the more it may help you come off the corner. By getting the weight onto the front of the car it will help maintain some front grip while cresting the hill, doing this, followed by a pause to let the car rotate will really let you get off the corner well. The time you make up bringing additional entry speed into the corner will most likely be nullified by the extra long pause, but the time you make coming off the corner will pay off well as you go down the long downhill back straight. Back tracking a little bit here, I mentioned a very early first apex, this is basically the first bit of curbing that you see on the entry to the corner, and is just about one car length before the crest of the hill, after hitting the apex do not come more than 3-4 feet off the curbing. You are only coming off the curbing in anticipation of your pause to help the car rotate, then immediately get the inside tires back under the concrete patch, there is only about 12 inches of asphalt between the curbing and the concrete and it is important that your inside tires are on the asphalt but not on the curbing. You may abuse the tires a bit more on the entry of the corner this way but it will be much better for them at the exit of the corner.
TURN SEVEN The next turn on the track is called turn 7 (yes, we skipped a bunch of turn numbers but that is because we are not running the chicane that is just after turn 1). This is the left hand 90 degree right hand corner with a downhill entry, apex and exit. The turn does not flatten out until about one car length or so after the exit point. There is a short straight to TURN EIGHT since a lot of how you enter turn 8 depends on how bad you messed up 7. This is one of those corners I always feel that I have left a little something on the table. The 7-8 combination starts with a downhill turn in. I trail the brakes slightly on entry but try to "roll'" a lot of speed into the corner, since there is no long straight after this corner getting on the power early is not critical. You want to carry the most possible speed into and past the apex as you can. This might not mean jumping on the brakes at the last possible moment but maybe just releasing the brake pressure a little earlier than you might think and roll the car into the corner scrubbing the speed off with the tires, this helps because being that the corner is downhill, if you come into it with to much weight on the front end it will disturb your turn in, releasing some pressure earlier than what you may think will settle some off the excess weight on the front back to the rear of the car. You will apex just about the center of the corner and like most of the other corners on this track you really don't want to touch the apex curbing. Let the car out all the way to the edge of the track and do not even think about scrubbing any speed off to try and get the car back to the right for the next left hand corner.
TURN 8 is an uphill entry, left hand corner, where just past the apex is a steep, but short downhill run leading to turn 9 , since you are still very much on the left side of the track since your exit from 7, you will be entering the turn 8 corner basically just following the inside curbing, you might be able to pull the car back a little to the right before entering and that may be slightly beneficial but only because you have not come through 7 fast enough. On turn in for 8 there is a pause to help the car rotate before cresting the hill, you want to have most of your turning done early so that you can concentrate on putting the power down coming over the hill, another reason to get your turning done early is that the track falls away on the outside of the downhill run to 9 and since it is such a short run to next corner you don't track out all the way so that you can have the car back to the left and fairly settled.
TURN 9-10-10a Turn nine is a right hand, downhill entry that flattens out just before turn in, almost 90 degrees and there is a little bit of camber that you can hug your right side tires on just before the apex. It is a slightly early apex corner because you get good compression coming down the hill. Use up all the road you can on the exit even though you are leading directly into a fairly simple set of esses marked 10 and 10a. When you track out of 9 you will almost immediately turn left for an uphill, flat out corner(10), most likely 3rd gear for everyone. You have the first bit of usable apex curbing on the inside of 10 as you go under the second of three bridges around Mid Ohio, use this curbing and hug the car inside so that you are set up for 10a properly, you should be able to go flat through 10 with out having to track the car out, when cresting the hill for the right hand sweeper (10a) that is about 70 degrees, it is a simple corner with a downhill entry that levels out at the exit. Again there is another corner waiting for you just as you exit. It is a very important corner on the track and one of the most difficult corners in the country. It is a right hand corner. Because it is a right hander we will want to stay a little high in 10a and not come all the way down to the apex. This helps the platform of the car to be a bit more level at the exit of the corner, we want the car level so that when it goes into the braking zone for turn 11 the car is a bit more stable.
TURN 11 a fast, third gear, right hand corner totaling about 90 degrees. There is an uphill entry with a blind exit. It is a slightly early apex corner because of the usefulness the hill will be in making grip. About one car length past the apex of the corner is a sharp decline in elevation, It is only about 4-5 feet but is a very quick drop. There is a big cement wall only two feet on the other side of the exit curbing and you should consider yourself lucky to make a mistake here and not pay big time for it. Make sure you have the car fairly settled here when cresting this hill, straighten out the steering wheel a little and let the car "land" smoothly. To much steering here will most certainly turn into a snap spin on the exit as the weight finally comes back onto the front before it gets to the rear. A quick note about the early apex I mentioned here, it really may not look like an early apex corner but there is grip in the hill, waiting on this corner and making it a late turn in is the safe way through but you will lose big time. The run out of this corner is an uphill straight, about 1/8 mile with a slight bend in it that is considered turn 12. It is not a very steep up hill run but enough that your exit speed from 11 makes a big deal in regard to the momentum you gain going up the hill. Stay on the left going up the hill and when you make your turn through the turn 12 sweeper keep the car all the way on the right side to set up for turn 13.
TURN 13 is an uphill entry with usable ENTRY curbing, get your wheels onto this curbing and you will allow yourself and extra 2 feet of turn in. This is a wild corner that flattens out and has a few bumps in it across the apex. There are a couple of different entry lines to try into this corner, starting from fairly early to a mid apex, and most line changes are made due to how the car is set up for the rest of the track as well as how well your car will goes over the bumps. Being that it is an uphill corner it leans to a slightly early apex but you will find you are running over more bumps there, a small adjustment to a later apex should move you around those bumps if they are to much to handle. The exit of 13 falls off to the outside and using the exit curbing on a routine basis is surely not recommended. Much like turn 7, if you come through this corner fast enough you will not be able to get the car back to the left to set up for the carousel in time. That's OK.
TURN 14 a long, 180 degree, right hand corner that has an immediate left turn that leads you back onto the front straight and across the start finish line. You will enter 14 from the middle right side of the track and double apex this corner much like the Keyhole. The only difference here is that the drop into this corner comes even sooner than in the keyhole, you will be braking over the drop in elevation appearing at the crest of the hill. Trail the brakes into the corner and come away from the curbing a full car width. You will need to make a big pause to let the car settle and rotate. Add the power on smooth and almost touch the last third of the curbing. Don't let the car track out more than just past the middle of the track so that the turn onto to the front straight is made without scrubbing off too much speed, this is important and if it is not possible either make a bigger pause or an adjustment to the car to help it through. The last little left hander should be easily flat. Turn 14 will most likely be 2nd gear with a shift to third just before coming onto the front straight. The exit of the last corner will bring you about 100 yards from the start finish line.
Mid Ohio In The Rain
This is a VERY slippery track in the rain. It has a very polished surface mainly due to all of the Indy car testing done here. Without a doubt you need to stay off the dry line under braking and keep away from the cement patches in the corners. The elevation changes just add to the confusion. The rain line might change through out a race or session depending on just how wet it is. Keep an eye out and pay attention to other areas of track that you are not driving on to see if you can actually spot any differences, they might be worth a try.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Per Kevin Allen
I would call Andy's description dead nuts, if you are new to M-O, print it and take it with you. After every session, sit down and drive some laps in your head, looking for reference points, making notes on your description page and on a track map, when you can drive a lap in your head and see all the points you use on the track and feel all the elevation changes and how they affect your car then you are getting close.
Mid-Ohio is a great track, but very involved. Also I cannot say enough about the school video, get it and drive your spouse nuts watching it.
Cheers
Been there once & it's a fun track. Don't make a decision after your first session. Read the above as many times as required & walk the track for elevation changes, off camber & blue apex dots.
Have Fun
David
Yeah, that's a dead nuts description for sure. The difference is that you'll be running the Club course with the chicane between 1 and the Keyhole. When you work up to it the entrance to the chicane will be flat with the braking zone past the right hand corner into the first left. Moderate braking for the left then back on the power to settle the car through the 2nd left before braking for the Keyhole. The entrance for the chicane for me is 3rd gear and the downchange to 2nd is at the entrance to the Keyhole. The entrance to the Keyhole will be on the right of the track as there is no time to track out to the left if you carried enough speed through the chicane.
Turn 1, exit of the Keyhole and exit of the Carousel are obviously the most important turns on the track to carry speed out of because the lead on to the longest straights. Turn 1 and 11 and to lesser extent 13 are the ballsy corners where you just have to work up to a decent speed. Thirteen is tricky and if you don't get it right your first time there don't fret.
Carrying good speed out of turn 1 sets up a good passing opportunity into the chicane either on the low or high side. The low side is preferred obviously but it can be donw without much drama on the high side if you're well alongside before entering the chicane. The best passing spot is in to 7. Like Lally says, for a fast lap you want to roll the car in and carry a bunch of speed. But to make a pass you can dive it deeper, make the pass while braking harder and later than you normally would.
Wish I could go up and coach but I'm working weekends now. Good luck and let us know how it goes.
------------------
Chris Ludwig
08 ITS RX7 CenDiv
Turn 1, exit of the Keyhole and exit of the Carousel are obviously the most important turns on the track to carry speed out of because the lead on to the longest straights. Turn 1 and 11 and to lesser extent 13 are the ballsy corners where you just have to work up to a decent speed. Thirteen is tricky and if you don't get it right your first time there don't fret.
Carrying good speed out of turn 1 sets up a good passing opportunity into the chicane either on the low or high side. The low side is preferred obviously but it can be donw without much drama on the high side if you're well alongside before entering the chicane. The best passing spot is in to 7. Like Lally says, for a fast lap you want to roll the car in and carry a bunch of speed. But to make a pass you can dive it deeper, make the pass while braking harder and later than you normally would.
Wish I could go up and coach but I'm working weekends now. Good luck and let us know how it goes.
------------------
Chris Ludwig
08 ITS RX7 CenDiv
Marty, when Chris mentioned T13 that reminded me of my 270* loop in in T13 where I watched the yellow flag come out while spinning at about the 180* part of the rotation. (EDIT: 270* all on pavement, no dirt) Previously I had been going faster each session thru T13 & each time the car oversteered more untill the loop. T13 is an uphill then left turn less than 90*
Have Fun
David
[This message has been edited by ddewhurst (edited September 06, 2004).]
Have Fun
David
[This message has been edited by ddewhurst (edited September 06, 2004).]
My most fond memory of that corner was from two years ago when some chuckle-head in an AS car painted the wall to the left and ended up parked sideways, perfectly in the middle of the track just over the hill. That's what I saw the first time by. The next lap he's out of the car, walking around it inspecting the damage. Right in the middle of the freakin' track! Moron...
John Herman
New member
Marty, once you go through the security gate, the first grassy area on the right is where a lot of people paddock. I prefer the grass vs. the asphalt. If you make the first rh paved turn, the paved paddocks will be on your left, the skid pad area (for the MidOhio school) on the right. If you turn into the paved paddock, drive past the Truechoice booth, you end up in the garage paddock area. I'd recommend either the big grass area or the paved paddock. There are lots of other areas nestled in the trees, but depending on when you show up (late at night Friday?), they can be hard to find/get into/very muddy if you are not familiar with the layout. I paddock on the grass, along the fence, by the skid pad. Because we are in Group 6, there will be plenty of time to register/tech in the morning. If you stand with your back to the track/road you drove in on, the tech area is located between the two buildings you'll see in the distance. When you get close, it should be easy to find. See you there.
Greg Gauper
New member
David (and others), that is actually T14 (in corner worker lingo). T13 is actually the flag station just after the bridge. Also the 'Lalley' description has the wrong ID for the last two corners (it would be like calling Turn 5 at Road America 'Turn 3'). Turn 14 is the fast uphill left hander, turn 15 is the long sweeping right hander, and turn 16 is the quick jog to the left leading onto the front straight.
I could always tell when I did turn 11 right cuz turn 14 would get real scarey
T2 (keyhole chicane) also got real 'busy' when I nailed T1 as well!
Depending how your car works over the bumps, you can get an extra foot or so of pavement on drivers right on the turn in for T14.
And for you trivia buffs, the reason there is no T12 is because it was eliminated soon after the track was built because it was too tight of a corner. You can still see the old pavement if you walk the infield by T11, just before the crossover bridge.
Marty - the other thing that might take some getting used to is the fact that the track is surrounded by walls & catch fencing (unlike Gratten which is wide open). Some people get slightly claustrophobic with all of the fencing. Try to put it out of your mind.
Some of the flags stations (turns 1 & 15 come to mind) are difficult to see at certain times of the day due to sun/shade effects.
Heads up when coming into the pits. People have been known to dump fluids on their way in and the pit entrance has a very sharp right-left jog. I've seen a lot of cars hit the wall coming into the pits too hot after hitting oil or coolant (and don't blame the corner workers cuz they can't see it behind the wall!)
Do your fellow competitors a favor....if you are pitting early during a practice session, make sure you are lined up on drivers left going into T15, and make sure you use lots of hand signals to let your competitors know you are pitting.
[This message has been edited by Greg Gauper (edited September 07, 2004).]
I could always tell when I did turn 11 right cuz turn 14 would get real scarey
T2 (keyhole chicane) also got real 'busy' when I nailed T1 as well!
Depending how your car works over the bumps, you can get an extra foot or so of pavement on drivers right on the turn in for T14.
And for you trivia buffs, the reason there is no T12 is because it was eliminated soon after the track was built because it was too tight of a corner. You can still see the old pavement if you walk the infield by T11, just before the crossover bridge.
Marty - the other thing that might take some getting used to is the fact that the track is surrounded by walls & catch fencing (unlike Gratten which is wide open). Some people get slightly claustrophobic with all of the fencing. Try to put it out of your mind.
Some of the flags stations (turns 1 & 15 come to mind) are difficult to see at certain times of the day due to sun/shade effects.
Heads up when coming into the pits. People have been known to dump fluids on their way in and the pit entrance has a very sharp right-left jog. I've seen a lot of cars hit the wall coming into the pits too hot after hitting oil or coolant (and don't blame the corner workers cuz they can't see it behind the wall!)
Do your fellow competitors a favor....if you are pitting early during a practice session, make sure you are lined up on drivers left going into T15, and make sure you use lots of hand signals to let your competitors know you are pitting.
[This message has been edited by Greg Gauper (edited September 07, 2004).]
Ok, who am I to question Greg's knowledge.
I looked at a track map I have at home from the Mid Ohio schools & the turn David & others are talking about is TURN 13.
Next I went to the Mid Oho site & they say:
Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course is as friendly for the fans as it is tough on the competitors. With two configurations – a 15-turn, 2.4-mile layout and a 2.25-mile, 13-turn version.
Now if the 15 TURN course is being used as it will be when Marty is there this weekend & you subtract TURN 15 & 14 you will have the TURN 13 that David & others are talking about.
Have Fun
David
ps: If anybody had any common sense when the 13 turn course is used they would just drop T 2 & T 3 from conversation & call all the remaining TURNS the same as when the 15 TURNS are being used. IIRC from last years Runoffs that's just what they do.
I looked at a track map I have at home from the Mid Ohio schools & the turn David & others are talking about is TURN 13.
Next I went to the Mid Oho site & they say:
Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course is as friendly for the fans as it is tough on the competitors. With two configurations – a 15-turn, 2.4-mile layout and a 2.25-mile, 13-turn version.
Now if the 15 TURN course is being used as it will be when Marty is there this weekend & you subtract TURN 15 & 14 you will have the TURN 13 that David & others are talking about.
Have Fun
David
ps: If anybody had any common sense when the 13 turn course is used they would just drop T 2 & T 3 from conversation & call all the remaining TURNS the same as when the 15 TURNS are being used. IIRC from last years Runoffs that's just what they do.
Greg Gauper
New member
David,
You forgot turn 16
More corner worker jargon (which I bring up in case anybody is listening on a scanner since medical will repeat the hardline calls over the radio; or in case any of you drivers strike up a conversation with a worker at the beer party and you don't want to give them a dumb look when they say they worked turn 16 on a 15 turn track).......
Turn 1 is drivers right just before the bridge. Note: some workers get their jollys when they discover that drivers are using them or their shadows as brake markers and will move around from lap to lap to make things interesting
(gee, how would I know that
)
Turn 1A is drivers left and is a 'mirror' flag for turn 1, since 1 can't see around the corner because of the bridge.
Turn '2' is drivers left just before you jog right for the chicane. If you have mechanical problems exiting turn 1, the 'pro' straight between 2 and 3 is an excellent place to pull off.
Turn '4' is on the back stretch just after after the keyhole sweeper, near 'sound' on drivers left. This may not be staffed if they are short on workers.
Turn '5' is the corner 'island' driver's right across from the Pro/Runoffs start line. I don't know if this start stand is staffed for a 'normal' club event for black flag & meatballs?? Turn 5 is another safe place to pull off if you have problems.
Turn '6' is the yellow light only in the braking zone for 7 on drivers left. This may or may not be staffed depending on number of workers available.
Turn '8 is a good place to pull off on drivers left after the flag station (near all the flat tows/wreckers/tilt beds. If you can't get over to the left due to traffic, coast down the hill to the bottom of the hill and pull off at turn '9' behind the armco.
Turn '12' as mentioned above, does not exist.
Turn '14' is the OMG!!! uphill fast left hand sweeper. They will also show meatballs/black flags from this station.
Turn '15' is the entry to the carousel. Flags are drivers left behind the fence.
Pit-in is drivers left between 15 & 16.
Turn '16' is drivers right just as the cars flick left to head up the front straight.
[This message has been edited by Greg Gauper (edited September 07, 2004).]
You forgot turn 16
More corner worker jargon (which I bring up in case anybody is listening on a scanner since medical will repeat the hardline calls over the radio; or in case any of you drivers strike up a conversation with a worker at the beer party and you don't want to give them a dumb look when they say they worked turn 16 on a 15 turn track).......
Turn 1 is drivers right just before the bridge. Note: some workers get their jollys when they discover that drivers are using them or their shadows as brake markers and will move around from lap to lap to make things interesting
Turn 1A is drivers left and is a 'mirror' flag for turn 1, since 1 can't see around the corner because of the bridge.
Turn '2' is drivers left just before you jog right for the chicane. If you have mechanical problems exiting turn 1, the 'pro' straight between 2 and 3 is an excellent place to pull off.
Turn '4' is on the back stretch just after after the keyhole sweeper, near 'sound' on drivers left. This may not be staffed if they are short on workers.
Turn '5' is the corner 'island' driver's right across from the Pro/Runoffs start line. I don't know if this start stand is staffed for a 'normal' club event for black flag & meatballs?? Turn 5 is another safe place to pull off if you have problems.
Turn '6' is the yellow light only in the braking zone for 7 on drivers left. This may or may not be staffed depending on number of workers available.
Turn '8 is a good place to pull off on drivers left after the flag station (near all the flat tows/wreckers/tilt beds. If you can't get over to the left due to traffic, coast down the hill to the bottom of the hill and pull off at turn '9' behind the armco.
Turn '12' as mentioned above, does not exist.
Turn '14' is the OMG!!! uphill fast left hand sweeper. They will also show meatballs/black flags from this station.
Turn '15' is the entry to the carousel. Flags are drivers left behind the fence.
Pit-in is drivers left between 15 & 16.
Turn '16' is drivers right just as the cars flick left to head up the front straight.
[This message has been edited by Greg Gauper (edited September 07, 2004).]
David Ferguson
New member
It seems strange that you would refer to corner stations as "turns", The real turns are on the track, so I would call that "station 1, station 1A, etc".
The Mid Ohio school video, track booklet, on track coaching, and hot laps like the Andy Lally map usually refer to the corners (turns) the same say -- the way Andy does. For communications between drivers, that is the best numbering system to use.
The Mid Ohio school video, track booklet, on track coaching, and hot laps like the Andy Lally map usually refer to the corners (turns) the same say -- the way Andy does. For communications between drivers, that is the best numbering system to use.
paulydee
New member
Marty,
I will be there Friday night to register. I will be parking at the Trackside Supply trailer (in the vacinity of the Hoosier trailer). Come look for the black RX-7 (73 ITS). I'm no John Herman or Chris Ludwig, but I will give you what I can offer about driving the track. I am always down for a meeting of the minds on tech issues as well. Come see me.
------------------
Paul D'Angelo
73 ITS CENDIV
Indy Region
http://www.iridiumracing.com
I will be there Friday night to register. I will be parking at the Trackside Supply trailer (in the vacinity of the Hoosier trailer). Come look for the black RX-7 (73 ITS). I'm no John Herman or Chris Ludwig, but I will give you what I can offer about driving the track. I am always down for a meeting of the minds on tech issues as well. Come see me.
------------------
Paul D'Angelo
73 ITS CENDIV
Indy Region
http://www.iridiumracing.com
RacerBill
New member
Greg and Marty:
I have never seen the station at turn 4 manned. They might man it for the runoffs. Sound control usually covers any incidents on drivers left after the keyhole, and occasionally drivers right in a real emergency.
The starter's stand on the back straight is only used for pro events and the runoffs (Had the pleasure of starting the IMSA Prototypes from that location at the Vintage event this year). Station 14 and the starter's stand on the main straight (by T&S and the Goodyear Tower) are the locations for black flag and meatball.
The Mid-Ohio School tape should be available on their website (might be a little late to get it to you), but should be available at the concession stand in the lower paddock.
Hope to see you up there!
I have never seen the station at turn 4 manned. They might man it for the runoffs. Sound control usually covers any incidents on drivers left after the keyhole, and occasionally drivers right in a real emergency.
The starter's stand on the back straight is only used for pro events and the runoffs (Had the pleasure of starting the IMSA Prototypes from that location at the Vintage event this year). Station 14 and the starter's stand on the main straight (by T&S and the Goodyear Tower) are the locations for black flag and meatball.
The Mid-Ohio School tape should be available on their website (might be a little late to get it to you), but should be available at the concession stand in the lower paddock.
Hope to see you up there!
Greg Gauper
New member
Bill,
Yes, they only staff Station 4 when they have enough workers. Every year that I worked the Runoffs (all except last year...I drove
) we always set up a worker rotation between station 3 and station 4.
Gee, this year my Runoffs racegroup (GP) doesn't run until Sunday....I might have to pack a set of worker whites to have something to do on Friday & Saturday....its the second best seat in the house
[This message has been edited by Greg Gauper (edited September 09, 2004).]
Yes, they only staff Station 4 when they have enough workers. Every year that I worked the Runoffs (all except last year...I drove
Gee, this year my Runoffs racegroup (GP) doesn't run until Sunday....I might have to pack a set of worker whites to have something to do on Friday & Saturday....its the second best seat in the house
[This message has been edited by Greg Gauper (edited September 09, 2004).]
Wow, that was an awfully full paddock! I wish ITA would've drawn more than 9 cars but oh well. Competition was tough enough but I had a blast! The Integra's working a bit better and getting faster and faster. This morning was the first time anything other than a CRX was sitting on the ITA pole at Mid Ohio in quite a while. That lasted all of about 2 seconds though - damn those guys are fast!
------------------
Kevin
Ruck Racing
'92 ITA Acura Integra RS
'92 ITC Honda Civic CX
'85 ITC Honda Civic S
'95 ITS Honda Prelude Si
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Kevin
Ruck Racing
'92 ITA Acura Integra RS
'92 ITC Honda Civic CX
'85 ITC Honda Civic S
'95 ITS Honda Prelude Si