Neck Collars

C

Campbell

New member
I was told by a Hans sales rep that the neck collar I was wearing wasn't a safety device, it was simply a "comfort" aid developed by Rally drivers. They went on to say that the neck collar could in fact cause injury by acting like a "lever" to stretch your neck in an impact.

Anyone heard anything like this?
 
Yep... That's the basis of what I was told. I was at a bonfire party once and Bryan Cohn had just attended one of the Safety Symposiums given by the SCCA. He went out to his car, grabbed his neck collar and tossed it into the fire, much to the dismay and protests of the attendees, until he explained why :119:
 
Originally posted by Speed Raycer@Aug 15 2005, 09:36 AM
Yep... That's the basis of what I was told. I was at a bonfire party once and Bryan Cohn had just attended one of the Safety Symposiums given by the SCCA. He went out to his car, grabbed his neck collar and tossed it into the fire, much to the dismay and protests of the attendees, until he explained why  :119:
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Double Yep. They will not hold your head on:

Donut.jpg


They do keep your neck nice and warm, though. <_<
 
I sat in on a lecture given by Jim Downing. In his words the foam neck collars are actually slightly worse than nothing. They provide no support in a crash situation and their weight actually adds a very small amount of inertial loading to the head.
 
I will not disagree with anything you folks are saying. (sorry Gregg, I wore the hat all weekend at Road America) BUT, if the collar is worthless then why is the collar mandatory in WKA & IKF Kart racing............ I am here to tell ya all that I toasted my ITA car July 10th this year & I will have an Isaac before I race my new car. My seat will also have the shoulder side support & head side support. No injury of any kind to me during my crash, but my head went TOTAL right as I watched the hood CRUNCH back & upwards, then my head returned total left untill it hit the padded roll cage side hoop. NOW, back to 1992 when I went over another Karts front tire during a pass. I went to the left over the front of the Kart hit nose first which sent me sailing upside down completly over the Kart racing track where I came down on my right shoulder, right side of helmet while breaking 2 left side ribs, 3 right side ribs & the right side scapala (shoulder blade) while the Kart ramed me into the ground. Neck collar was in place & I'll say I beleive the neck collar saved injury to the neck/upper spine.

Experienced people said latter that it was cool the way I had both hands firmly attached to the steering wheel during the entire crash. IIRC they said, ya dumb ass your supposed to push yourself free of the Kart in a situation like that. My response, it's was my first time, next time I'll know what to do.

I'll reask the question:

If the collar is worthless then why is the collar mandatory in WKA & IKF Kart racing............
 
David,

By no means am I an expert, but the dynamics of a crash on the human body in a very light-weight kart with no harness or roll cage are entirely different than what you would see in a 2000-3000lb car with a full cage and harness.

Just as there are differences in helmet requirements between an auto racer (Snell 'SA' rating) and a motorcycle racer (Snell 'M' rating) I suspect that the governing body(s) for karting have their own requirements.

I've heard about the issues regarding the horse collars from my Hans rep as well, but I think the above photo says it all.
 
I heard the go-kart deal is that the collar protects you shoulder blade when you roll over and the top of you helmet becomes your roof.
 
Originally posted by Campbell@Aug 15 2005, 01:15 PM
I was told by a Hans sales rep that the neck collar I was wearing wasn't a safety device, it was simply a "comfort" aid developed by Rally drivers. They went on to say that the neck collar could in fact cause injury by acting like a "lever" to stretch your neck in an impact.

Anyone heard anything like this?
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I'd heard a couple of years ago that the FIA had out lawed their use. Studies concluded that the collar actually served as a lever against the helmet and the collar bone in stretching the spine. I scrapped mine, but my team mate continues to wear his. He claims he likes the feel of support it gives his helmet in hard turns. I prefer to strengthen my neck muscles.
 
Aha! Dave, and others, have brought up an important distinction: The collar can help when the load to the head is in compression. Not a bad idea for karts, but it's only foam rubber so don't expect any miracles.

Sorry, I was assuming in my above comment that we were talking about the typical racing crash scenario, i.e. frontal impact with the body stopping and the head continuing on its merry way.

BTW, 60% of military BSFs are compression related, typically helo crashes. The next major similar injury is ejections, which cause a tension injury. Upper neck loads get nasty when a 500 mph airstream gets under your helmet.

(Dave, glad you were wearing your new hat!)
 
I guys, just thought I should add my two cents worth from my experience with a open face helmet & collar. In Nov.04 at Road Atlanta I hit the wall head on between 4 & 5 at about 80 mph in a ITB Golf. If it wasn't for the steering wheel stopping my head from leaving my shoulders I probably wouldn't be here today. As a result of that, I now wear a full face helmet & the Hans device. Also many of my co-racers wear the Hans now as of a result of that incident. My point is that the collar didn't help the situation, it may have enhanced the strain on my neck.

Just my personal thoughts. I would go with the Hans.
 
In my experience here, most racers buy a helmet support, aka donut, neck collar, helmet restraint, thinking it is a cheap solution to help protect them when in an accident. We keep trying to educate our customers to the fact that the purpose of the helmet support is to help support the weight of the helmet primarily in circle track racing. It is not, nor is it meant to be anything else.

Howard Bennett
Racer Wholesale
 
I started wearing my collar after my compressive vertebre fracture from a roll over. My head came in contact with the roof and squished my neck together - blew out the C7. I went out and found the stiffest collar I could and I've been wearing it ever since. I think it would absolutely help if I ever found myself in the same situation again.

But that being said, after I started wearing one I realized just how much energy you waste in holding your head up. On the cool down lap after a race I usually take it off to cool off - even just on a cool down lap I'm shocked at how much energy it takes to hold up my mellon.

Now if Gregg wanted to become my next sponsor, I'd love to switch to a full head & neck restraint system. :023:
 
As added spice, I train as a First Responder through work. Our EMT trainer refers to the soft collars so popularly warn as a neck support immediately following a rear end collision as neck warmers. Same design as the helmet collar and useless in supporting the vertebrae. <_<
 
***We keep trying to educate our customers to the fact that the purpose of the helmet support is to help support the weight of the helmet primarily in circle track racing. It is not, nor is it meant to be anything else.***

Howard, do you have anything to support your statement ^ ?


***I train as a First Responder through work. Our EMT trainer refers to the soft collars so popularly warn as a neck support immediately following a rear end collision as neck warmers.***

Chris, do you have anything to support your statement ^ ?


Are you folks talking about the same collar that is mandatory for WKA & IKF Kart racing ? Do you folks really think the collar is worthless ? If so then why is the collar mandatory in WKA & IKF Kart racing............
 
We take this stance because of the large number of people who think it is an orthopedic device and, lately, a replacement for a H&N system that is going to keep them from breaking their neck. It was originally designed to help support the weight of the helmet for circle trackers where they are spending a lot of time in high G corners and the force multiplies the weight of the helmeted head. I don't have any SFI study to refer anyone too. It's just one of those products that someone thought up that might be of benefit that they could sell.

A lot of people will ask for the "neck brace" and we have to correct them to the fact that it is a helmet support. There's the liability issue and also there is not enough substance to a helmet support to keep the head steady in a high impact crash. I imagine someone would get some benefit by not having their chin or chin bar of their helmet smash into their sternum.

I don't know if the helmet support that we are talking about here is the same support required by the WKA and IKF. I assume it is. I don't know why they require one. I assume they preceive a benefit in kart racing. I'm not familiar with kart racing and the forces that impact the racers.

Howard Bennett
Racer Wholesale
 
Originally posted by ddewhurst@Aug 19 2005, 04:38 PM
Do you folks really think the collar is worthless ? If so then why is the collar mandatory in WKA & IKF Kart racing............
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I was told by Dr Hubbard at the safety seminar in in KC a couple of years ago that according to their testing the collar had no positive effect on the basil type fracture that Head and Neck restraints were designed to combat and that actually the extra weight of the collar slightly added to the force. i can only assume that in the kart situation they are more worried about a compression fracture which I would think would be more common in karts with your helmet suppoerting the weight of you and the kart.

I bought a collar when i started in 1999 but I have such a short neck that i could not turn my head enough to see the right side miror. :(
 
Collars are helpful in reducing fatigue of the neck muscles, which makes them popular in dirt oval racing and rally applications.

Because the foam only works in compression, they will absorb some compression loads, but not much. This is probably what the karting organizations are going for--any little bit helps.

Because the foam only works in compression, they will absorb no tension loads. Unless you are a helicopter pilot, the BSF you experience will probably be in tension.

Someone crash tested this idea a while back (early '90s?) and found that neck tension loads are not lessened by collars.

Dave,

It has been my personal observation that sanctioning bodies--be they the racing bodies or the Pentagon, FAA, FDA, etc.--are usually the last ones to "get it", whatever "it" may be.
 
Thanks for the feed back guys. My whole point was/is that before the Isaac, Hans & the other latest neck safety items there would not have been this talk of collars being worthless & neck warmers. ;)
 
In my opinion, neck braces for road racers only give helmet support and a minor degree of safety in keeping everything in its place when scrubbing speed in a rollover or multi impact incident. I do not think it would be a benefit in a high g single impact incident as it would act as a lever as stated before. I rolled a car multiple times (low impact forces) wearing a collar and had no adverse affects. The karting unit I have is different than the standard roadracing units I have purchased in the past. It has a piece that runs down your back under the helmet for additional support. Remember no seat belts in a kart and it weighs maybe alittle more than its pilot so it needs to be able to support those forces when they are applied to your mellon...
 
Karting neck collars have evolved to be much more supportive than the type in Gregg's photo above. They are thicker padding and extend further down the nape of the neck.

Karts aren't likely to hit something and come to a dead stop causing BSF type injuries. Further, you aren't restrained in a kart seat so you don't have the head and neck trying to accelerate away from the body.

In karting they are designed to help with the high g forces and neck fatigue. Especially 8 year old kids with relatively weak neck muscles and a big, heavy helmeted head. Karts will generate more lateral g's than any unwinged race car that I am aware of.
 
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