NHIS Results ???
- Thread starter 67ITB
- Start date
irondragon
New member
Matt:
It was not what went down - but rather what went up.
In the ITS/ITB race I came down the hill into Turn 10 and there were two flying rabbits. One was horizontal and rolling, the other was vertical and rising. I was hoping not to be under when either came down.
The race was pretty much a cock-up. The Pace Car restart didn't work, because half the field thought it OK to pass the other half whose drivers hadn't understood the presence of the invisible green flag. In the ensuing time a car spun out at Turn 3 requiring a full course black, and subsequently a hasty but complete re-grid in pit lane. The rest of the race went to the finish.
A very strange race but I admire the quick work of the Grid types who got suddenly called to pit lane and who did the reorganisation just beautifully.
Still not sure why some of the strange things happened.
BEst Regards Bill Miskoe
It was not what went down - but rather what went up.
In the ITS/ITB race I came down the hill into Turn 10 and there were two flying rabbits. One was horizontal and rolling, the other was vertical and rising. I was hoping not to be under when either came down.
The race was pretty much a cock-up. The Pace Car restart didn't work, because half the field thought it OK to pass the other half whose drivers hadn't understood the presence of the invisible green flag. In the ensuing time a car spun out at Turn 3 requiring a full course black, and subsequently a hasty but complete re-grid in pit lane. The rest of the race went to the finish.
A very strange race but I admire the quick work of the Grid types who got suddenly called to pit lane and who did the reorganisation just beautifully.
Still not sure why some of the strange things happened.
BEst Regards Bill Miskoe
m glassburner
New member
Everybody ok?? WOW!! would like to see some video of that!! mike g.
[This message has been edited by m glassburner (edited April 18, 2004).]
[This message has been edited by m glassburner (edited April 18, 2004).]
therooster
New member
I just was there for the school. Although I did not get signed off for the school (not for lack of trying. I was short on time because my car broke and I ended up borrowing 2 cars. That is the reason of this post.) I would like to publically thank irondragon and mmiskoe for their help this weekend. I have known both for a couple years but they went above and beyond trying get me signed off this weekend. Both let me drive their cars, and irondragon even spent time working on mine as I drove mmiskoe's or his. AND I had minor incidents in both. SO THANKS both Matt and Bill.
Chris Aylward
Chris Aylward
16v
New member
Well Matt...my Golf got the worst of the carnage, she is destroyed.
An ITS Civic (he just graduated from the school) spun out exiting ten...Jeff benaugh had no where to go but straight into him, and then his car got sent off spinning (completely airborn) into my side, which promptly tipped me over and spun me around....all four of my wheels are facing a different way, and the roof is crushed in.
Two interesting points:
Got home about an hour ago, unloaded her off the trailer, BADA-BING, she fires right up and purrs like a kitten, so I will transplant everything into a new shell.
This is irony....the guy that spun and caused the entire mess....well at the drivers class on Thursday night, he asked the group for help....his car failed tech due to old belts...I spoke up and said he can borrow my extra pair.....so he was only running do to me loaning out my belts.
As many people saw me today, I am in a very good mood, Jeff and I both immediately walked away from the accident, and that is all I can ask for.
Time to rebuild!
An ITS Civic (he just graduated from the school) spun out exiting ten...Jeff benaugh had no where to go but straight into him, and then his car got sent off spinning (completely airborn) into my side, which promptly tipped me over and spun me around....all four of my wheels are facing a different way, and the roof is crushed in.
Two interesting points:
Got home about an hour ago, unloaded her off the trailer, BADA-BING, she fires right up and purrs like a kitten, so I will transplant everything into a new shell.
This is irony....the guy that spun and caused the entire mess....well at the drivers class on Thursday night, he asked the group for help....his car failed tech due to old belts...I spoke up and said he can borrow my extra pair.....so he was only running do to me loaning out my belts.
As many people saw me today, I am in a very good mood, Jeff and I both immediately walked away from the accident, and that is all I can ask for.
Time to rebuild!
Ah, damn, what a mess, but I was glad to hear everyone was safe. I was kinda worried there with Alan's car laying on its side; I hear the incident was "interesting". I'm sorry to see what happened to Alan and Jeff Benaugh, not to mention Jeff Lawton having the whole front clip of *his* Rabbit GTi tweaked over by another driver (I'll let JeffL fill in the details).
Yep, cabin fever rared its ugly head today today...
[This message has been edited by grega (edited April 18, 2004).]
Alan,
Glad to hear that you/everyone is Ok. So I guess now you can pull one of those "spares" out from behind the rental yard.
What was the end result of the ITB race? Did the Blethens get their cars together??? Was my car involved in any of this? ITS/ITA results???
Wish I could have been there, again sorry to hear about the incident.
Matt Bal
Glad to hear that you/everyone is Ok. So I guess now you can pull one of those "spares" out from behind the rental yard.
What was the end result of the ITB race? Did the Blethens get their cars together??? Was my car involved in any of this? ITS/ITA results???
Wish I could have been there, again sorry to hear about the incident.
Matt Bal
RSTPerformance
New member
Alan-
I never got to talk to you after the race. But I did ask a lot and was told you were ok which made me very very happy. Not sure if you realized but I was the car on yours and Jeff’s tail heading down into turn 10 (somehow I was able to pass about 7 cars going into 6 and I found myself behind you!!!). I saw the whole thing a little closer than I wanted.
When the civic spun I immediately went OMG... as the last two races Jeff's car raced his car and my car have been seriously damaged in accidents together (actually they have been my worst road racing accidents). So I had a little deja vous of another accident. As you know I am rather quick and loose through the turn 9-10 combo and as with you and Jeff I had no place to go either. I went for the only hole, which was UNDER you… I was trying everything possible not to hit Jeff as I watched you in amazement as you cleared the tire wall with the roof facing down. I was in total amazement as I plunged into the tire wall. Jeff’s rear bumper ended up hitting my right rear quarter panel and taking that out, and the tire wall took out my alternator belt. The accident was amazing and scary at the same time. I am thankful for 1) that you and Jeff were OK, 2) I escaped with much less damage than what I could have 3) that you and Jeff will be back THIS SEASON!!!
And moving on to the restart… What a mess…. Unfortunately because I got tangled in the tires in the accident I went basically to the back of the field (35th?). After the mess was cleared up from a back markers view it appeared as though we would go green, when the entire field came to the start finish their was no green flag, nor was their a wave off (the starter just stood their in amazement of all the ITS and ITB cars). There were no flags “double yellows” or any other flags at any station on the track. Apparently the leaders decided that they considered this a wave off, however the back markers and myself did not. I saw no flags and decided, as you should that the track was green. I passed about 25-30 cars by the time I got to turn 3 (where the corner workers were waving frantically to the front drivers telling them to get going because we were under green). Jason Benah followed my pursuit and actually passed me in turn 3 to take the lead for the first time in ITB!!!
Were we in the wrong??? ABSOLUTELY NOT I can remember an event last year where there was a full course caution put out and a half a lap later removed… The leaders were not at start finish but the entire field was to assume that when the flags come down the field is under green. This ruined a lot of people’s races. I have started restarts many times in the back (especially because we run with ITS) and always look at the flag stations rather than the starters stand. In the school (Both days prior to this race) students were preached that no flag means the track is green.
We did make a complaint about how the incident and the stewards did a great job to admitting their was a miscommunication. The starter was supposed to waive the green flag, but didn’t. The corner workers should have waited for the green flag before they took down their yellows, and they didn’t. I hope that this will never happen again.
This unfortunate mistake of the officials probably is what ruined my race. As I had mentioned earlier I lost my alternator belt and the unfortunate long process of re-gridding the field in pit lane killed my battery. I raced as long as I could until the battery just would give any more juice L. I think I could have won the race… but we will just have to go for it next time J. I pulled in 1 lap from the end got out and prepared myself for the victory lap with my brother, I stayed up way to many overnighters the week before not to enjoy that moment.
Stephen Won the ITB race, but not as easily as I had thought… His tire started to go low about 4-5 laps from the end and by the finish it was flat. We ran the victory lap on a basically completely flat tire. On the victory lap he was complaining that their seemed to be something wrong with the car!!! What really figures is last Thursday night my brother and I got in a tad bit of an argument. The Koni suspension we run has not been completely rebuilt yet, so the car had no suspension as of Friday night. Stephen basically gave up and wasn’t going to race. I told him he had to, and after the fight Thursday night on Friday he decided that he would race using suspension from a parts car in the back yard. Friday night the entire crew worked on his car getting the coil-overs installed onto a stock used suspension. That thing sat about 4 inches taller!!! He was about a .7 seconds a lap slower on the used stock shocks and struts, but that was still fast enough for him to win J.
Anyway, I think this will be a great season and I am looking forward to racing with all of you!!!
Raymond Blethen
RST Performance Racing
www.rstperformance.com
I never got to talk to you after the race. But I did ask a lot and was told you were ok which made me very very happy. Not sure if you realized but I was the car on yours and Jeff’s tail heading down into turn 10 (somehow I was able to pass about 7 cars going into 6 and I found myself behind you!!!). I saw the whole thing a little closer than I wanted.
When the civic spun I immediately went OMG... as the last two races Jeff's car raced his car and my car have been seriously damaged in accidents together (actually they have been my worst road racing accidents). So I had a little deja vous of another accident. As you know I am rather quick and loose through the turn 9-10 combo and as with you and Jeff I had no place to go either. I went for the only hole, which was UNDER you… I was trying everything possible not to hit Jeff as I watched you in amazement as you cleared the tire wall with the roof facing down. I was in total amazement as I plunged into the tire wall. Jeff’s rear bumper ended up hitting my right rear quarter panel and taking that out, and the tire wall took out my alternator belt. The accident was amazing and scary at the same time. I am thankful for 1) that you and Jeff were OK, 2) I escaped with much less damage than what I could have 3) that you and Jeff will be back THIS SEASON!!!
And moving on to the restart… What a mess…. Unfortunately because I got tangled in the tires in the accident I went basically to the back of the field (35th?). After the mess was cleared up from a back markers view it appeared as though we would go green, when the entire field came to the start finish their was no green flag, nor was their a wave off (the starter just stood their in amazement of all the ITS and ITB cars). There were no flags “double yellows” or any other flags at any station on the track. Apparently the leaders decided that they considered this a wave off, however the back markers and myself did not. I saw no flags and decided, as you should that the track was green. I passed about 25-30 cars by the time I got to turn 3 (where the corner workers were waving frantically to the front drivers telling them to get going because we were under green). Jason Benah followed my pursuit and actually passed me in turn 3 to take the lead for the first time in ITB!!!
Were we in the wrong??? ABSOLUTELY NOT I can remember an event last year where there was a full course caution put out and a half a lap later removed… The leaders were not at start finish but the entire field was to assume that when the flags come down the field is under green. This ruined a lot of people’s races. I have started restarts many times in the back (especially because we run with ITS) and always look at the flag stations rather than the starters stand. In the school (Both days prior to this race) students were preached that no flag means the track is green.
We did make a complaint about how the incident and the stewards did a great job to admitting their was a miscommunication. The starter was supposed to waive the green flag, but didn’t. The corner workers should have waited for the green flag before they took down their yellows, and they didn’t. I hope that this will never happen again.
This unfortunate mistake of the officials probably is what ruined my race. As I had mentioned earlier I lost my alternator belt and the unfortunate long process of re-gridding the field in pit lane killed my battery. I raced as long as I could until the battery just would give any more juice L. I think I could have won the race… but we will just have to go for it next time J. I pulled in 1 lap from the end got out and prepared myself for the victory lap with my brother, I stayed up way to many overnighters the week before not to enjoy that moment.
Stephen Won the ITB race, but not as easily as I had thought… His tire started to go low about 4-5 laps from the end and by the finish it was flat. We ran the victory lap on a basically completely flat tire. On the victory lap he was complaining that their seemed to be something wrong with the car!!! What really figures is last Thursday night my brother and I got in a tad bit of an argument. The Koni suspension we run has not been completely rebuilt yet, so the car had no suspension as of Friday night. Stephen basically gave up and wasn’t going to race. I told him he had to, and after the fight Thursday night on Friday he decided that he would race using suspension from a parts car in the back yard. Friday night the entire crew worked on his car getting the coil-overs installed onto a stock used suspension. That thing sat about 4 inches taller!!! He was about a .7 seconds a lap slower on the used stock shocks and struts, but that was still fast enough for him to win J.
Anyway, I think this will be a great season and I am looking forward to racing with all of you!!!
Raymond Blethen
RST Performance Racing
www.rstperformance.com
Funny you should mention the start...I was the lead car during the restart and obviously didn't know why we didn't get a green or a wave off. Figured there was a problem toward the back.
Then in turn 4-5 we see the workers motioning us frantically to get going - so we figured for some reason the track went green...by turn 9 the black flag all was out...
Bottom line for me...as the first car - and having seen no flag, there was to be another try at a clean start. From the back, if the double yellows are down, you assume green and THERE has to be a wave off.
Crazy start to the season, just wish my AFM connector had stayed on.
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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com
Then in turn 4-5 we see the workers motioning us frantically to get going - so we figured for some reason the track went green...by turn 9 the black flag all was out...
Bottom line for me...as the first car - and having seen no flag, there was to be another try at a clean start. From the back, if the double yellows are down, you assume green and THERE has to be a wave off.
Crazy start to the season, just wish my AFM connector had stayed on.
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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com
JLawton
New member
I had been battling Dave Austin for several laps. On the second to last lap, we ran side by side up from the bowl, through the back. I finally got ahead of him in 10 for fourth. He went wide, tapped me in the rear quarter and I spun to the outside of the track where another car (not sure who) almost ripped the nose off my car. Off to the frame shop.........
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Jeff L
#74 ITB GTi
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Jeff L
#74 ITB GTi
RSTPerformance
New member
Andy-
We (the back markers) didn't cause a wave off... I was the first one to start passing people I think... I did not pass anyone till I saw that there was no flag at station 1 (pit out). There was a flag at turn 12 (last station before start) so I decided not to pass till I saw start finish. Then I saw no flags at start finish, which would assume a wave off, but then when I saw no flags at station 1, which meant that the track was green, so I went for it. Then coming out of Nascar turn 2 looking into turn 3 I could see the workers trying to get everyone to go, so I continued on. Got tangled up with the VW in turn 3 when I went under him, he didn't see me and turned in, we bumped (we did talk and had a no/fault resolution and shook hands), he spun Jason passed me for the ITB lead and I continued on to the top of the hill where the black flag all was displayed.
There was no wave off, the green flag simply was not shown when it should have, and the corner workers were under the impression the green was displayed, as it should have been.
Raymond
PS: My brother did mention that everyone had their hands up indicating the acknowledgment of a "wave off" however that signaling did not continue to the back of the field as I never saw one hand up.
We (the back markers) didn't cause a wave off... I was the first one to start passing people I think... I did not pass anyone till I saw that there was no flag at station 1 (pit out). There was a flag at turn 12 (last station before start) so I decided not to pass till I saw start finish. Then I saw no flags at start finish, which would assume a wave off, but then when I saw no flags at station 1, which meant that the track was green, so I went for it. Then coming out of Nascar turn 2 looking into turn 3 I could see the workers trying to get everyone to go, so I continued on. Got tangled up with the VW in turn 3 when I went under him, he didn't see me and turned in, we bumped (we did talk and had a no/fault resolution and shook hands), he spun Jason passed me for the ITB lead and I continued on to the top of the hill where the black flag all was displayed.
There was no wave off, the green flag simply was not shown when it should have, and the corner workers were under the impression the green was displayed, as it should have been.
Raymond
PS: My brother did mention that everyone had their hands up indicating the acknowledgment of a "wave off" however that signaling did not continue to the back of the field as I never saw one hand up.
Ah, the light bulb fizzles on...
I was #6 in line, and like Andy, figured we had gotten a wave-off (I thought Andy was a tad bit fast out of 12). All the guys up front were waving their hands in the cars indicating a wave-off, all of us backed off, and none of us were racing. I had no clue what the corner workers were trying to tell us with the waving, but I figured maybe the pace car was out again and they wanted us to catch up. I had absolutely no idea until 3 minutes ago why they pulled us back in the pits, I assumed they did it because you guys in the back had gotten jumbled up and they had to get you all sorted out.
Any idea why the starter failed to wave the green? If the starter truly wanted a wave-off why did Race Control call for the dropping of the yellows?
Yeesh, what a mess. I hope we did a debrief on what happened so it can be avoided in the future.
I was #6 in line, and like Andy, figured we had gotten a wave-off (I thought Andy was a tad bit fast out of 12). All the guys up front were waving their hands in the cars indicating a wave-off, all of us backed off, and none of us were racing. I had no clue what the corner workers were trying to tell us with the waving, but I figured maybe the pace car was out again and they wanted us to catch up. I had absolutely no idea until 3 minutes ago why they pulled us back in the pits, I assumed they did it because you guys in the back had gotten jumbled up and they had to get you all sorted out.
Any idea why the starter failed to wave the green? If the starter truly wanted a wave-off why did Race Control call for the dropping of the yellows?
Yeesh, what a mess. I hope we did a debrief on what happened so it can be avoided in the future.
RSTPerformance
New member
Jeff's Car
Alan's Car
Stephen winnig on his flat tire.
Raymond
[This message has been edited by RSTPerformance (edited April 19, 2004).]
itracer
New member
New starter. First race of the season.
Since I was one of the cars that "took advantage" of the situation, I was not pleased to see the black flag come out.
Once I heard that there was confusion amongst start, the corners, and control, I completely understand why they choose to black flag all. The fact that NO cars were sent back further than their prior pace lap position AND no one was spoken to after the race, leads me to believe that the officials may have felt it was not clear what the rules say.
I was curious as to what the rules say, so last night I poured over the GCR when I got home. I can’t quote it because it is at home, but I feel that there is a really grey area here. The GCR said that the course shall be full course Yellow. I’ll leave it to the rules nerds to sort this out, but I still believe that, due to the green course, we (Raymond and myself) were correct in our drive to the front.
PS Jeff's car (the Orange one) should be back by Pig Roast (July). The fenders were off before we left the track and the doors should be off by tomorrow.
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Jason
ITB 17 (NER SCCA)
VW Scirocco