No, really. They last HOW long?

S

Streetwise guy

New member
I keep reading threads on here where people talk about tire and brake life, and I gotta tell you, there are some numbers that just don't work for me and my Neon.

Tires- last year, I was running 205/50 15 888's, and being very careful about rotation and pressures, I used up 12 tires in 6 weekends, with 2 1/2 to 3 hours track time each weekend. This year, I switched to Goodyear 225/45 15s. I love them compared to the Toyos- best lap last year at Calgary was 1:32.8, ran a 1:30.7 (2 tenths off class record) a couple weekends ago. I decided to just rotate side to side, to check life and I was corded on the fronts at the end of the last heat- 2 hours 20 minutes or so. I really like the feel of the car on the Goodyears, and of course, the speed is nice too, so I figure the $60 or so more per weekend is worth it.

I read on here about people getting much longer life than that.

Brakes- I run Hawk blues, and I can get 3 weekends out of a set. If I try for a 4th, I will hit steel, or melt the pistons on the front calipers. I also have to watch for cracking rotors.

I read on here a while ago about somebody looking for more than the 9 weekends he was getting out of his pads.

Is my car a pig? Am I an over-agressive hack? Is the asphalt at my tracks too coarse? Or is this kind of consumption normal for a twincam 2650# Neon that is always run in sprint races?
 
So if i have this right... you bought a set of tires and the cut 2.1 second off you lap time and the conditions were roughtly approximate...

Well.... wow!

What was your question again?

Grippy stuff will wear other stuff...

If I could cut that time at my local track with tires... I might do it, though I must admit that I have been blessed and appreciative (truly) with hand-me-downs. My budget cannot handle tires given some dyno work.

Though a miata (driver) and should be light on brakes... I am at 32 "sessons" (race, test, or qual) with Hawk blues and and still pretty good in terms of pad wear... call it 60% down. no gooves or anything in the rotors (checked this AM). I do not know your car.. but 3 weekends seems like not so much... but maybe my perspective on "serviceable" is different.

2.1 seconds.... wow...
BB
 
While its not really the point of the thread, Yeah, I'm pretty happy with the lap time improvement too.:D The other change to the car was wheels. I wanted to go to the 225s, thinking about tread life and my big fat car, but that involved going from my 6" curb friendly stock Neon alloys to a set of 7" Rota Slipstreams. Lighter wheels, the Goodyears are lighter too- at least 5 pounds per corner less- I've not weighed yet. Its like I had the shocks revalved. There is a chicane leading onto the back straight, with the fast line being to hop the curbs. I'm passing cars out of that chicane that passed me in exactly the same place last year. Things like this make me happy.:happy204:
 
Wow, that's sounds pretty crazy. For the Goodyears, did you properly heat cycle the tires? Do you also properly bed in the pads?

Some tracks will be much rougher on tires and brakes than others. Have you spoken with others that drive that track to see just how harsh it is on their equipment?

How much camber are you running? What about your other alignment settings?

Do your brakes get enough cooling / do they get quite hot?
 
I've heard that Neon's are hard on brakes and tires, but dang....

I've got 31 seperate events on my-laps, a track day at Willow Springs plus at least six more test and tune days, one at Laguna Seca and the remaining five at Buttonwillow, on the same set of Hawk HT-10's and two sets of RA-1's. I've yet to cord my original Ra1's and am still running with a couple of them. I guess YMMV by a lot.
 
Properly heat cycling the tires is a bit of a difficult proposition, although I do try. My home track is 7 hours from home, so I've got to try to run a set in practice, then switch to another set thats already been heated..... As to the brakes, yes that I can do around home. Doesn't seem to make a whole lot of difference. I have checked brake temps, and they are not unreasonably high- I forget the exact numbers right now. Neither tires or brakes are getting too hot, lap times and feel of both are very consistent for a 45 minute session now. The 205 888's would go off if pushed.

Alignment is a work in progress now, with the new tires. Last year I was at 4+ degrees negative camber just to keep from tearing the edges off. This year is much better- I started out at 2.5, and dropped the RF a bit at the end of the first day. Tire wear was very even across the face of the tire, so I'm pretty happy there.

550 front, 700 rear, ST sway bars, revalved Konis all around.

Mr Z3- you will have to forgive me if I don't compare my brake wear on my Neon to your BMW:D. I've seen BMW brakes, and that really not what I have.
 
It greatly depends on the track. I am unfamiliar with Calgary, so cannot say anything specific. As an example, I only get 4 Council weekends at Blackhawk (which includes a little over 4 hours of track time) out of Hawk Blue's. Since Blackhawk is extremely hard on brakes, this makes it hard to compare my numbers to others.
 
Hawk Blues are sort of a minimum acceptable standard pad for me. I can and have made them work, but if a car is working well, and on stickey tires, better pads are in order.
 
That being said I've used Hawk Blues, then tried Porterfield, and then Carbotech which I've been using for several years now.

They also developed a new bedding in process which I've experienced good things with. http://www.CTbrakes.com
 
I haven't read the whole the thread yet - I will say that folks like the life and performance of the DTC 60-70 over the Blues.
 
People like the carbotech's over the porterfields? I just ran my first weekend on the porterfields, and they felt very nice. Very good bite.
 
ScotMac said:
People like the carbotech's over the porterfields? I just ran my first weekend on the porterfields, and they felt very nice. Very good bite.
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We prefer the Porterfield pads over the Carbotechs. Performance seems to be comparable, but we got significantly more usage out of a set of Porterfields than we have out of Carbotechs, which are only lasting around 2-3 regional weekends on a set. The Porterfields were on the car for mixed usage (autox, track days, and race weekends) for a year and a half, and probably had twice the life.
 
gran racing said:
Guess everyone has their preference, which is why they both still are in business.
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I'm not saying the Carbotechs are bad by any stretch. They just haven't lasted as long for us yet. We have solid rotors up front though, so that may affect their lifespan. We also didn't have adequate cooling when we went through our first set of CT's, so I'm sure that shortened their lifespan. The Porterfields seemed to have tolerated the excessive heat better, when we were "ductless", in terms of durability. The current set of CT's are holding up better with the proper ducting on, but it doesn't look like they are going to last as long as the Porterfields. We did find that both Porterfields and CT's worked alot better than Hawks. Also with our rear drums we far and away like the CT shoes.
 
Jim, to compare apples to apples........Mine is a '95 SOHC 4dr at 2520lbs.
I've got 2 Enduros, 1 National, & 3 Regionals on my Hawk Blues & Toyo RA1 running at Daytona & Sebring (long & short). Tires are NOW hard as a rock, but not corded. I run 205/55/14 & never cared for the Toyos since new. I've had to change the rotors once due to cracking. The pads are due to be changed, but MAY last another Regional.
 
I run Hawk DTC 610's on the front and Hawk HPS or HP+ (i forget) on the rear....I cronically brake to conservatively, but that being said I have gotten over 6 events on them. I also was able to finally rig up an effective brake duct soln.! Rotor temps hot was 525 degrees...which included 3/4 lap of cool down on Brainerd's 2.5mile track.

2.7 degrees of camber, and the outside edges wear this 1st...but any more than that and IF I lock up the tires the very inside edge will cord. Tire temps on a Hoosier r6 205/50/15 at 32psi seems to work quite well...roughly 155 all the way across.
 
For endurance racing, I really like the Cobalt CRB XR3, they are great pads with outstanding wear. I am getting 8 hours life in a Integra Type R. PS, they are also easier on the rotors than the hawk blues (which were our old goldstandard till we tried the cobalts.

Also, I like the BFG R1 tires. I think they are comparable to the hoosiers, but give twice the life. They are good tires. If your budget is important, sometimes you have to spend money to save money. There are both worth it.
 
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