Order of cars going out for qualifying

G

gran racing

Super Moderator
In order to eliminate cars showing up along side the grid fence a qualifying session or two before their time to qualify, would it be possible for other solutions? Some other regions base it upon previous qualifying times or just by pulling a number out of a hat.

What are peoples' thoughts about doing this? How difficult would it be to make happen?
 
I like what MARRS does - a lot. It avoids congestion before the grid and allows reduction in stress in trying to fight for a preferred spot on the grid.

Can someone obtain their procedures? Maybe it's something we can discuss here in NER.
 
Anyone lined up along the road leading to grid prior to grid being emptied for the previous session gets sent to pit lane to be started after the session is green by the mercy of pit out.

After being told "get over yourself, you're racing for an ashtray."
 
The it just becomes a race to grid once it opens up. Yes, it's an ashtray but it's an ashtray many of us spend a lot of money and time to get.

GRID: Grids for Saturday morning qualifying will be set in advance by the Driver Representatives and will be posted at Registration. The Saturday afternoon race grids will be set by Saturday morning qualifying. Sunday's race grids (including the bonus race) will be set by the fastest lap from either Saturday session.
Click to expand...

I'll reach out to the region to get a better understanding of this.
 
Last edited:
MARRS has done it both by points and by (historical) times. I believe the process is chosen by the individual class reps, and not by sweeping edict, thus each run group may differ. Reach out to Dave Parker and/or Matt Yip for details.

SAARC/MARRS at VIR is done by the host regions rules, and thus a land rush. Some less attentive MARRS regulars were caught out by that last year.
 
Its a problem??? for who??? Never heard anyone complain until now:shrug:
Do we really need another rule :D
 
dickita15 said:
how big a problem is this. I have not noticed it in my race group much. is it just an SM thing?
Click to expand...
SM and any class where SMs run. So, yeah.

Go watch the grid entrance at any NER event (e.g., NHMS, LRP, WGI). You need to be there at the beginning of the prior race group to be anywhere except the way back in your own group*.

I personally don't feel the compulsion to be at the front; you're going to run into Miata traffic no matter where you are (and in fact, a lot of Miata and Miata-like drivers are starting to run side-by-side up front to keep the 'out' lap extremely slow and back up the whole field). My only beef with being Tail End Charlie is that I lose a lap of practice each time (mostly because when I finally get out, everybody is running at 40mph because of the imposed congestion at the front).

GA

* If you're perpetually late to the grid, you probably never noticed it... ;)
 
I have never had that problem.

I assume they are doing this so they can be infront of the line when quali starts? Is this just to get clean track? I usually wait till 2nd call or so.. drive down there.. get back out of the car. hop in once the previous group gets the checker, get ready under the 5 and ready by the 1.

I race in the South East.. so sitting in my car not moving for any more time than necessary sounds like a bad idea.

I often in quali find myself in traffic.. that is okay. I will slow up.. cool myself and the car down, get a gap to the cars ahead and make another go at a lap. Does this not work for others?

In reference to the Miatae slowing people down.. can you not pass them?
 
Guess you haven't seen the pre-race Lawton and Bettencourt had getting to the fence first? LOL! I have since spoken with the WDCR and much of how this is handled depends upon the class reps. Some do it on historical lap times, they know typically who the fast drivers are, or by pick of the hat selection.

Is this just to get clean track?
Click to expand...

Oh hell yeah. In the NER where Lime Rock produces just over a min a lap, there's absolutely an advantage to getting out first. I tell the drivers right behind me that I'm going relatively slow the first 1/2 lap, then am on it. Normally I'm just fine getting it done the first or second flying lap and often pit early. Also wonder if this will be the case with Thompson.

Does this not work for others?
Click to expand...

I'm with ya and one of those guys where people often come up to me after wondering if I had a mechanical issue as I'm pointing them by driving off line. Yet on the short tracks, it seems that there's often some darn Bug Eye or other car which makes things more challenging.

After experiencing the WDCR region, I kept thinking how I wish other regions did this. When the random draw happens, in some weird way it adds to the excitement a little even if you don't believe it matters.

so sitting in my car not moving for any more time than necessary sounds like a bad idea.
Click to expand...

Who said anything about sitting in the car? :) Park it and get out. Besides, there's a 1/2 hour before qual begins.

Is this a major issue? No. Yet it's something that I and others do consider an easy improvement to the process. I'm not complaining or whining; just offering a possible way to make things better.
 
ner88 said:
Ok, so if there are guys that find it important and no one is complaining :shrug:
Click to expand...
Sounds like someone is complaining... ;)

I don't like the dash for pre-grid (the JLawton/ABettencourt pre-grid race was a hoot, well worth the North Garage slot just to watch). I love the way WDCR does it. Makes things run a lot smoother with a lot less hassles, stress, and guesswork for the competitor. Drivers have no say in where they grid, just show up right at the "five" and be done with it.

It does require extra effort from Control and Grid; someone will have to determine grid order, and Grid will have to line 'em up like they do for races. Drivers will likely think it's worth the extra effort, but will Control and Grid...? Probably not.

GA
 
Last edited:
I think the congestion at LRP could be and probably is a problem. The second we need to get an emergency vehicle through we will need to do something about it. At NHMS I haven't noticed such an issue. But for sure at LRP the ITS/R/B group does the same thing, even me to a certain extent. The only thing I worry about is IF we all wait till 5min then it's a mad stressful dash for he grid workers to get everyone in place.

Stephen
 
Last year in MARRS ITA we went with fastest time and that worked out well for the most part. In the prod/SP/ST/LC run group practice we did the random draw. I was all for the random draw until I noticed I was always in the high 20's. I started to get resentful and then I realized I need driving in traffic practice. By the end of the season I really liked starting practice at the back figuring out how to get by various levels of talent and car prep (Not that I did a lot). Now maintaining fast laps with traffic is a goal for me.

BTW - I am also one of those guys that said I'd rather come in 2,3,4,5,6 in a close race versus run away.
 
Qualifying grid slots, at least in WDCR SSM, are huge. It's the difference between qualifying well in a 30+ car field that typically see the top 15 qualified within two seconds on a 1:28 pace and being stuck in "working man's territory" outside of the top five or so. We also have a agreement to take it easy on the out lap, running at reduced pace for approx 3/4 of the first lap to allow the entire field to clear the grid before coming up to full speed. It works for both the front and rear of the field, allowing a clear track for all. It's important enough that last Labor Day when my qualifying slot for Monday was hosed due to a administrative error and I was placed mid-pack instead of up front I buttonholed everybody I could find until it got fixed (thanks Shirley and Gail!).

It's not perfect - more than once I've been caught behind somebody who was asleep at the go point (the field is shown a standing yellow for the out lap) and watched the leaders and my drafting partners disappear into the distance. At Summmit, in SSM, the draft is worth about a half to three quarters of a second.
 
Last edited:
Guilty. I loved to be first. If I wasn't (maybe 2nd or 3rd) I would tell the people in front of me that I was coming around them in the first few turns so don't 'warm your tires into me' while the track is green.

I had my strategy to be P1 and as long as it doesn't create an issue, I don't see it as such. To me, this is Grid's call. If they feel the congestion is prohibiting proper flow, then a change should be made. Never heard any issues with the 'lines' before.

The MARRS solution sounds great but requires extra volunteer(s) and time. If you can do it, do it!
 
If the problem is cars lined up somewhere they shouldn't be, then all that's needed is "Fire Lane" signage or some yellow paint and someone willing to enforce the rule. If someone is speeding in the paddock to get to their session, their penalty should be to sit in their car for 30 minutes to think about the error of their ways.

But it doesn't sound like those issues are really at the root of the complaint. Some want a policy that lets the fast people start at the front for their qualifying sessions, to help maintain their competitive status quo. Or at least a rule that blunts any perceived advantage for those willing to get their car to the grid area an hour before a session.

If you really want a 4-car drafting package for qualifying, get three friends and roll to the grid together.

What problem are you trying to solve?

At the end of the day, though, P&G has to think it matters because whatever the problem is, you're making it theirs by adding work to their day. It reflects my decades-long perspective on multi-class group racing but I personally don't think that the organizers have any obligation to eliminate the vagaries and confusion of mixed groups. A big part of what should sort the big girls from those tripping over their panties is how well they deal with that stuff.

If parked cars or congestion are a problem, address that directly. Then invoke the ash tray rule...

K

EDIT - Remember that if you grid qualifying by fastest practice session time, you just shove the problem to that session.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top