Programmable ECU

C

C. Ludwig

New member
What if someone could seriously undercut the price of the Motec option? Who would be interested and what should the price point be? The system in mind wouldn't have the resolution of the Motec but it would offer full programmablity for spark and fuel as well as datalogging capabilities. It would be laptop programmable with no pots or screws to turn. Basic specs would include...

10x10 fuel tuning MAP v. RPM
19x21 ignition timing leading and trailing MAP v. RPM
datalogging of stock sensors with undetermined capacity
general analog inputs for datalogging of EGT, AFR, ect.
OMP limp mode removal for S5 ECUs
user defined RPM limit

Discuss please.
 
interested, espec for general applications. size is critical with the "in the box" rule.

a good easy to understand app is very key as well.
 
I do not know what a Motec system goes for but if it could be done for less and still provide enough income to make it worthwhile someone would be doing it.
 
Size isn't a problem. The system I'm referring to is a modded stock board. Not a stuffed unit.

And Tom, if I had time to complete the development I could undercut Speedsource by half using a Haltech board and still make money. The Motec is overkill and overpriced, IMO, for our application.
 
Would you be doing this just for Mazda cars or others as well? (I'd be interested if it could be done for my Honda too.)
 
Chris,
I would think there would be several interested in "reasonably" priced alternative. I can't justify(afford) the price for the current Motec option. If the pricing was lass than, say, a Microtech LT10, I would probably have to submit a purchase order to my Chief Financial Officer (wife) ......

The limp mode removal would be a serious plus for us S5 guys.
 
I think there would be a good market for it if it's pretty plug-n-play. It would be a big time-saver if it runs fairly well out of the box. Your closest competition is probably a Megasquirt, but nobody is offering that in the OEM enclosure. My Megasquirt has taken a great deal of time to set up and tune well - pretty much there now.

I'm guessing $500 would stir up a lot business. $1000 might be a tough sell.

general analog inputs for datalogging of EGT, AFR, ect.
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I've struggled with this issue with my Megasquirt. Seems like there's no way to get the signals into the box during competition events. My wideband O2 sensor connects to a pigtail sticking out of a hole in an ECU cover that's only used during test days. Likewise, my datalogging requires an external device (I usually use a Palm Pilot). The Palm connection goes through that same hole.
 
I have heard quotes of the megasquirt running about $500, but I also question the legal issue that you have to make the megasquirt work in a 2nd gen rx-7 which is you have to remove some teeth of the CAS unit to get it to work with the stock components.

If you can get a computer to work inside a stock computer box and run with all stock sensors. I would easily pay $600-$1000.
 
... I also question the legal issue that you have to make the megasquirt work in a 2nd gen rx-7 which is you have to remove some teeth of the CAS unit to get it to work with the stock components.
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Not true. Stock CAS, all stock sensors, stock harness, no extra connections to the ECU box.
 
To make this a little more transparent...

I've been in communication with a gentleman for about a year that does work of this nature. We are currently looking at Beta testing in about a month. The way my scheduling works that means around Thanksgiving. I have a couple cars lined up for dyno time as soon as I have a product in hand. The interface is proven and there is no doubt that this will become a viable product. It will be manufactured by a 3rd party.

Pricing has yet to be determined. Like most of you I want it to be sub $1000 but I can't make promises at this point. The other products the engineer currently has on the market are well south of that figure.

I'll post more info when it becomes available.
 
The "perfect product" would be:

-small
-adaptable to multiple inputs and modes
-straight forward to program
-powerful
-and cheap.

I think that if you can come close to the known players in those areas, but at a better price point with better user friendliness, you are on to something.
 
Not true. Stock CAS, all stock sensors, stock harness, no extra connections to the ECU box.
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I got to thinking that maybe some clarification is warranted here. The MegaSquirt is by nature a do-it-yourself project that nearly always requires some level of hardware customization to fit it to a particular vehicle. Various components on the circuit board are populated or not populated, or connected in various ways to fit the application. Sometimes additional components are required for an application. These adaptions are usually well-documented for popular applications.

In addition to the hardware issues, there are firmware configuration files that sometimes must be customized to make the firmware work for the application.

Adaptions that I recall making for the RX-7 are:
  • Alternative heat sink mount to facilitate mounting in the ECU case
  • Alternative computer connection connector and mount
  • Customization to the circuit board and the internals of the ECU case
  • Custom connections from the circuit board to the ECU harness connector
  • Elimination of onboard MAP sensor
  • Thermal sensor bias resistor values
  • Ignition bias resistors and jumpers
  • Additional VR circuit for CAS sync wheel
  • Alternate driver for BAC valve
  • Noise suppression capacitors on various sensor inputs
  • Custom MAP configuration files
  • Custom thermal sensor configuration files
All hardware adaptions are inside the box.
 
Update...finally.

I received a beta unit about a month ago. We took an ITS car to a Dynojet this past week. Baseline results were 166whp peak. A/F ratio was a very consistent 12.1:1 up to 7000 rpm where it dipped a full point rich through shut down at 8400. Peak power was at 7300. We played with the fuel pressure and timing to optimize, as best we could, the stock ECU configuration. Like I've noticed on these applications, we had to run very low pressure to get anywhere close to optimal a/f ratio. To the point atomization is certainly suffering. In the end with the pressure regulator as the only control we couldn't approach optimum a/f ratios.

Plugged in the modded ECU which had a stock pogram and made an initial run that pretty much duplicated what we had with the other box. What you would expect. Being a new system I spent quite a bit of time learning the interface and I didn't get as much done as I wanted to before we called it a day. We were shooting for an a/f ratio of 13.5:1. What we did manage to do was make 2 more hp at peak, 10 more hp from 5500-7000, and as much as 16 more hp from 7500-8400. The low peak results were based on the fact that I never got the a/f trimmed right in that particular area. It's entirely possible to get the fuel properly trimmed I just didn't get it done in the allotted time. I would suspect 3-5 additional hp is available by properly trimming the fuel.

Timing adjustments are a breeze. No need to twist the CAS while shooting the pulley with a light. Once you have the CAS properly set and zeroed out you can dial in seperate adjustments for leading and trailing through the software. Want 25* advance and 2* split? Dial it up.

In the end the day was a success. The ECU and interface worked flawlessly. The gains were real and repeatable. Pricing has been set at $450 + shipping. I'm waiting on word for what the production release date will be. On that I am at the mercy of the manufacturer. The ECU is current rule legal. No need to wait on a rule change. Tuning support and programs will be available but just so I am clear this is a programmable unit that will require dyno work to provide optimum results. I'll post again when I have an idea of when they'll be production ready.
 
Update...finally.

I received a beta unit about a month ago. We took an ITS car to a Dynojet this past week. Baseline results were 166whp peak. A/F ratio was a very consistent 12.1:1 up to 7000 rpm where it dipped a full point rich through shut down at 8400. Peak power was at 7300. We played with the fuel pressure and timing to optimize, as best we could, the stock ECU configuration. Like I've noticed on these applications, we had to run very low pressure to get anywhere close to optimal a/f ratio. To the point atomization is certainly suffering. In the end with the pressure regulator as the only control we couldn't approach optimum a/f ratios.

Plugged in the modded ECU which had a stock pogram and made an initial run that pretty much duplicated what we had with the other box. What you would expect. Being a new system I spent quite a bit of time learning the interface and I didn't get as much done as I wanted to before we called it a day. We were shooting for an a/f ratio of 13.5:1. What we did manage to do was make 2 more hp at peak, 10 more hp from 5500-7000, and as much as 16 more hp from 7500-8400. The low peak results were based on the fact that I never got the a/f trimmed right in that particular area. It's entirely possible to get the fuel properly trimmed I just didn't get it done in the allotted time. I would suspect 3-5 additional hp is available by properly trimming the fuel.

Timing adjustments are a breeze. No need to twist the CAS while shooting the pulley with a light. Once you have the CAS properly set and zeroed out you can dial in seperate adjustments for leading and trailing through the software. Want 25* advance and 2* split? Dial it up.

In the end the day was a success. The ECU and interface worked flawlessly. The gains were real and repeatable. Pricing has been set at $450 + shipping. I'm waiting on word for what the production release date will be. On that I am at the mercy of the manufacturer. The ECU is current rule legal. No need to wait on a rule change. Tuning support and programs will be available but just so I am clear this is a programmable unit that will require dyno work to provide optimum results. I'll post again when I have an idea of when they'll be production ready. [/b]
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Would this work on ITR BMW's? :D
 
Sorry guys. S5 RX-7 only at this time. The Miata would be a great platform to start work on. I'll mention it.

As an update to the ECU we're working on now. There will be options to lock out the timing v. coolant map providing for full timing regardless of temp. It's a competition only feature with the associated use at your own risk disclaimer.

The rev limit will also be upped to 9000 rpm. We felt this was a reasonable number. Comments?

We're also adding fuel control to 9000 rpm. Currently the last cell covers 7800-rev limit.
 
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