REMINDER: Feedback needed on Crank Pulley Rules...

Banzai240

Banzai240

New member
Just a reminder to everyone that the CRB is looking for Feedback concerning the subject of opening up crank pulleys, as discussed on this board many times.

Please be sure to drop a quick note with your thoughts on the matter to:

[email protected]

Thanks,

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Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Renton, WA
ITS '97 240SX
DJ_AV1.jpg
 
what's the rule now? (I've been out a few years). I thought you could replace the crank pulley with a single row pulley anyway? (or are you talking about ALL the pulleys?)

If I'm way off base here, I would like at least the crank pulley replacable if not all of them.

Thanks!
 
Currently you may replace all but the crank pulley. It currently must remain stock.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
 
Originally posted by Geo:
Currently you may replace all but the crank pulley. It currently must remain stock.
Click to expand...

DOH!

Looks like I got it (and $250 spent) backwards.. Grr. Its a dumb rule anyway. Every 16 year old in a civic has done this. The IT rules REALLY need to be updated to reflect the real world. My street cars have always been in a higher state of prep than the rules allow for my race car!
 
Originally posted by Spinnetti:
DOH!

Looks like I got it (and $250 spent) backwards.. Grr. Its a dumb rule anyway. Every 16 year old in a civic has done this. The IT rules REALLY need to be updated to reflect the real world. My street cars have always been in a higher state of prep than the rules allow for my race car!
Click to expand...

Well you see, this is why Darin posted. Don't just tell us. Write to the CRB! Send an e-mail.

As for a street car being in a higher state of prep, that doesn't even phase me. My last two road cars were prepped WAY beyond what I'd want in IT engine-wise. When you have no rules it's easy to modify an engine cheaply.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
 
i seemed to recall that it did not have to be stock but had to be stock diameter.

i may have been breaking the rules but mine was stock diameter but had the A/C pulley section removed and additional holes drilled to lighten it.
 
Originally posted by tom91ita:
i seemed to recall that it did not have to be stock but had to be stock diameter.

i may have been breaking the rules but mine was stock diameter but had the A/C pulley section removed and additional holes drilled to lighten it.
Click to expand...

Stock diameter and material. You weren't breaking the rules, and I did the same thing - except I made no additional holes, just machined off the front pulley section.

That figures - Now it's going to be obsolete instead of "limit of the rules".
 
As the rule is now, you are wrong. Stock is stock. Nowhere does it say you can change it, unless you have a rotary engine. No extra holes. No removing extra grooves. No modification. Stock = stock.

Chris Albin (yes, it's really him)
 
Originally posted by OTLimit:
As the rule is now, you are wrong. Stock is stock.
Click to expand...

Well, not exactly...

From the 2004 ITCS, page 11:
n. Alternate water pump, alternator and power steering pulleys of any diameter or material may be used. Crankshaft pulleys with fewer grooves than stock may be substituted if air conditioning compressors and/or emission control air pumps are removed. Diameter and material of crankshaft pulleys shall remain as stock. Type of accessory drive (e.g., V-belt, toothed belt, etc.) shall remain as stock.
Click to expand...

So, in the right circumstances, you can substitute...


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Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Renton, WA
ITS '97 240SX
DJ_AV1.jpg
 
Thanks, Darin, for pulling my head out of my a**. Maybe I should sleep more than two hours a night, turn on my brain, and THEN get the GCR out before posting.

Or not.

Chris Albin
 
I had always interpreted the substitution rule to mean a factory pulley without the AC / emission groove may be used. I don't think substitue and modify (drill or otherwise alter) are interchangable.

Of course that;s why I asked the CRB to consider allowing either all pulleys to be replaced or crank pulleys only.

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~Matt Rowe
ITA Shelby Charger
MARRS #96
 
Originally posted by Matt Rowe:
I don't think substitue and modify (drill or otherwise alter) are interchangable.
Click to expand...

They are not. But if you can substitute, modification becomes a moot point.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
 
Okay, then my question is substitute what? An alternate stock pulley or any pulley? Typically if any pulley is allowed the language is written as something along the lines of "pulleys are free." That's not what the rule says in this case so altering a stock pulley would appear to be out of the question, which is what I was gettig at with the people that have lightened their stock pulley. If you don't have alternate stock pulleys than without that substitution there are no other options. Right?

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~Matt Rowe
ITA Shelby Charger
MARRS #96
 
Matt here has a valid point. It makes no sense whatsoever to allow someone to "subsitute" the OE part with an aftermarket bit, while NOT allowing someone else to "subsitute" the OE part with a modified OE part.

K
 
Originally posted by Knestis:
Matt here has a valid point. It makes no sense whatsoever to allow someone to "subsitute" the OE part with an aftermarket bit, while NOT allowing someone else to "subsitute" the OE part with a modified OE part.

K
Click to expand...

Kirk, you trying to have your Rules Nerd badge confiscated?

Substitute is substitute. A modified OEM part is fine. Substitute mades modification irrelevant. You can substitute a stock OEM part with a modified OEM part. Well, except it must comply with the rest of the rule.

The diameter shall remain as stock.

Material must remain as stock.

Fewer grooves may be used if smog pumps and AC are removed.

Type of accessory drive must remain as stock.

Nothing above precludes using a modified OEM pulley does it? I don't think so.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
 
George, the implication of the rule is that the crankshaft pulley can be substiuted with the unmodified factory one for without those accessories. I've never read that rule to mean an aftermarket part could be used.

Of course, this could very quickly devolve into the spherical bearings/Motec/porting allowances we're starting to become used to lately...

Greg

P.S., it's because of "interpretations" as these that when I wrote up the Modified Touring rules a couple of years ago, I added the following:

These rules were written with clear intent and no hidden agenda, and the organizers Modified Touring 2 rules committee will not tolerate “creative interpretation” of the rules. A web site with specific competitors’
questions will be maintained; if any competitor has any question about what is and is not allowed, these should be directed to the rules committee for formal interpretation and publication. “Creative interpreters” run significant risk of having their modifications nullified without prior
notification.
 
Originally posted by GregAmy:
George, the implication of the rule is that the crankshaft pulley can be substiuted with the unmodified factory one for without those accessories. I've never read that rule to mean an aftermarket part could be used.
Click to expand...

Greg, while I understand your interpretation and why, I've always regarded this rule as written.

If it says you can, you bloody well can.

So, you can substitute (that word is taken directly from the rule) within the limits specifically stated within that rule. Absolutely no where does it say you can install another OEM pulley. Furthermore, it wouldn't need to because if it's an OEM part for the car, you can freely use it without a rule stating so.

Open your mind and read this critically again. Give up your preconceived ideas and simply go by what it says. Regardless of intentions, my interpretation is 100% within the written rule. It's not tortured.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
 
But if you're trying to say that a stock pulley drilled for lightening is allowed I think that is over the limits of the rule. Drilling or machining a stock pulley is a modification, not a substitution.

At heart the real problem is the wording "substitute" which is ambiguous at best. Considering the CRB is reviewing a rule change based on requests to allow aftermarket pulleys is a good indication that they don't see as much latitude in the rules.

But, the gist of the requested rule change is to allow alternate materials and diameters for those makes of cars where aftermarket crank pulleys are cheaper or more common than aftermarket accessory pulleys.

Now, if you can show me where the aftermarket makes steel pulleys of stock diameter but lighter than I might be willing to accept that they can be substituted for a stock pulley.



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~Matt Rowe
ITA Shelby Charger
MARRS #96
 
So ask yourself this..

How do you measure the diameter of a pully?

In order to tech this current rule, you would have to wrap the belt that is used around the stock oem pully, measure the diameter, and then do the same with the suspect pully.

Right?
 
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