RSTPerformance
New member
As may of you know I had the opportunity with our team (RST Performance Racing) to run the 12hr Devil in the Dark this year in the ITR Mazda RX8 (very fun/cool car). Two weeks later I had the opportunity to drive in the 15hr Lemons Race at NHMS with another team I am on called "Got Wood." That car is now a Porsche 944 that is powered by a 1.8 Audi turbo motor from an A4... yes another very cool car.
In NJ the RST Performance Racing team did a full on effort that IMO was a huge success especially considering it was our first real enduro more than 4hrs. as a team.
At NHMS the Got Wood team didn't have the same success due to mechanical issues and some bogus/unfounded on track penalties. This was our third unsuccessful attempt (another story for another day). I did however get my "full stint" of driving without to many issues so I do think it is fair for me to make a comparison.
First I want to tackle the issue that seems to fill up other threads... driving.
Raymond “trying to be an unbiased guy” Blethen
In NJ the RST Performance Racing team did a full on effort that IMO was a huge success especially considering it was our first real enduro more than 4hrs. as a team.
At NHMS the Got Wood team didn't have the same success due to mechanical issues and some bogus/unfounded on track penalties. This was our third unsuccessful attempt (another story for another day). I did however get my "full stint" of driving without to many issues so I do think it is fair for me to make a comparison.
First I want to tackle the issue that seems to fill up other threads... driving.
- To make the comparison that people seem to be making is like comparing apples to oranges (whatever the quote is). Everyone seems to compare SCCA sprint racing to Lemons or Chump-Car endurance racing. YOU CANNOT DO THAT. You need to compare to SCCA endurance racing. If you put these Lemons cars into a 30 minute sprint race it will be a completely different scenario just like it is when you put a bunch of IT or dare I say "miata" drivers into a 12hr SCCA endurance race... it is totally different. Why? Because making that pass right now is no where near as critical (unless you are in the last hour of racing and still lucky enough to be battling for position). Amazingly people get that in SCCA and in Lemons. The focus changes from winning to finishing when the race gets that long. SO PLEASE STOP making that comparison, it is not valid. Both are relatively incident free here in the Northeast from what I have seen.
- The talent in SCCA is FAR higher than any of these other series, and it should be. In SCCA you cannot race with us until you have some experience and prove you are safe. In these other series all you need is a non-suspended drivers license (no they don’t check your driving record). I am not going to argue some darn good drivers are in both SCCA and Lemons as well as other series... after all I drive in both
(smile folks). All joking aside though anyone who argues that the overall talent in SCCA is lower than Lemons has something that is clouding their personal judgment...
- The entry fees appear to be cheaper. From what I have seen, SCCA is around $700-$800 including all drivers AND crew/family. Lemons and other series are over $1,000 and I know in Lemons that doesn’t include crew or family (that is another $20 per person).
- Membership however is the other way around. SCCA is well over $200 for a membership and competition license where as Lemons is just $50.00. This to me is a huge issue for SCCA as this is a rather steep initial cost that isn't directly related to any event. This doesn't include the fact that before you race in SCCA you also need to attend at least one or more things we call a school (really I think it should be called a test). NO school needed for Lemons, all you need to do is pass the test at the DMV!
- The cars.... We all know that $500 is a completely bogus number when it comes to Lemons. Sure the car is worth $500 when you start and the thing looks like a complete rat trap but when you add in all the safety stuff it is easily as expensive as a "home built" IT car. On the flip side though the costs are split among several drivers (nothing says a team of SCCA enduro drivers couldn't do that though). You also would be surprised at how inexpensive creative people with talent can do things. Take for example the 1.8 Audi turbo conversion in the 944. A few people with some engineering talent, some Audi Porsche knowledge and a few more people that are good at welding and you have something that to most is ridiculously expensive but to the Got Wood team was less expensive than a new used 944 motor. Lemons happens to love this type of stuff where as SCCA doesn't realistically have a good place for it.
- The Prep work... It really doesn't matter what you are racing, if you want a car to last 12- 15hrs you need a lot of luck and/or a lot of prep work (replacement of wear items). This is expensive and is relative to your car choice, not SCCA or Lemons. The only thing that does make Lemons cheaper is the fact that 90% of the people in SCCA at an enduro spend a ton of money and time on prep where as 90% of the people in Lemons spend a lot of time and money being creative rather than preparing the car to last 12-15hrs. In SCCA you need to do the prep work if you want to be “in the race” where as in lemons so many other cars are also breaking that you can still have fun and finish in the top half even if you have mechanical issues. If you disagree then please stop reading and go work the tow truck at both events and get back to me!
- Lemons car classifications have no real rules but two "judges" that do an amazing job at splitting the cars up into three classes that are realistically very close in competition. Sure sometimes people will pull a fast one or provide a bribe to cheat but they do have this figured out, and everyone is on equal playing ground. Cheating is encouraged and bribes are encouraged. SCCA has tons of rules that provides a significantly more professional racing experience (even on an amature level) through structure, organization and expectations. However it also significantly restricts open creativity and often makes things actually cost more money.
- Lemons Safety rules are significantly more strict than SCCA (how many are surprised at that one? I know I was!). This includes everything from roll cage rules to driver egress to driver gear.
- On track driving behavior is not even up for discussion in Lemons if it is your fault or not. The more you argue the closer you are to the gate. Your best bet is to make a cash donation to the charity they are promoting. Personally I think this part of Lemons sucks. SCCA once again has a TON of rules and provides far more structure for a professional racing series. However the draw back is that it is overwhelming to newbie’s and requires uncomfortable driver participation in the process. The process has changed significantly over the past few years to be more driver friendly but still is underused buy the participants. Drivers that do use the process are looked at as "difficult" people.
- Both provide some excellent competition especially if you want to win overall. I have to admit though... In SCCA events using SCCA classing we have way to many classes making the competition very thin however at the Devil in the Dark they use a class structure that combines classes resolving this issue. In Lemons they have a limited class structure but ~85% of the cars are really not much of anything other than a chicane to the average racer. Either way, if you want t win your class you better bring your A game and a good car.
Raymond “trying to be an unbiased guy” Blethen
how serious are the Lemons teams about trying to win?
