September 2011 Fastrack

erlrich

erlrich

Super Moderator
Has been up since Friday - the sauce is weak around here this month...

Minutes are here
Tech bulletin is here


Of interest - under "What do you think?"
  • "Member input is requested on whether an allowance should be made to permit disabling power steering assistance on IT cars, including allowing the fluid lines to be looped if desired."
Yeah, sure, why not...I mean, they don't have power steering on real race cars, do they? :rolleyes:

Interesting non-IT item; T3 as we know it is going away next year, but then in '13 SSB and SSC will be combined and become the new T3. The majority of current T3 cars will be moving to T2 (they also have ST as an option). I'm sure the T3 drivers - all 10 of them (including Mr. Chairman) are thrilled....
 
(Super Touring) You can put a VW engine in a 944? 924 makes sense, but a 944, interesting.
 
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red986s said:
You can put a VW engine in a 944? (Super Touring)
Click to expand...
He asked, we said, "sure, why not?" Once you really think about it - and we did - VW and Porsche are the same "family." Yeah, maybe not exactly the same structural relationship as Honda/Acura, Toyota/Lexus, GM/Pontiac, or even VW/Audi, but VW does pretty much own a major chunk of Porsche...and they've been sharing technology for decades (912/914/VW bus, Porsche 924/Audi 100, etc).

So, sure, find a way toss in that Golf 2.0L turbo engine into your 944, and go have fun playing in STU... :shrug:

GA
 
I don't mean to bitch, but how long does it take to formulate a sentence allowing substitution of engine/trans mounts?

My suggestion sent 2-22-10:

"Engine and transmission mounts of alternate design and/or material, may be used, but there can be no change to the engine’s fore, aft or vertical location. Engine mounts must attach to the engine and the chassis in their stock locations."

Seems to me that in 18 months something could be formulated. Chuck
 
Greg Amy said:
He asked, we said, "sure, why not?" Once you really think about it - and we did - VW and Porsche are the same "family." Yeah, maybe not exactly the same structural relationship as Honda/Acura, Toyota/Lexus, GM/Pontiac, or even VW/Audi, but VW does pretty much own a major chunk of Porsche...and they've been sharing technology for decades (912/914/VW bus, Porsche 924/Audi 100, etc).

So, sure, find a way toss in that Golf 2.0L turbo engine into your 944, and go have fun playing in STU... :shrug:

GA
Click to expand...

Wow! I like it, thanks Greg!
 
Your language is appreciated but it has issues. We've worked with other ACs to come up with something we think works. We want to try to get this one right.

chuck baader said:
I don't mean to bitch, but how long does it take to formulate a sentence allowing substitution of engine/trans mounts?

My suggestion sent 2-22-10:

"Engine and transmission mounts of alternate design and/or material, may be used, but there can be no change to the engine’s fore, aft or vertical location. Engine mounts must attach to the engine and the chassis in their stock locations."

Seems to me that in 18 months something could be formulated. Chuck
Click to expand...
 
My personal thinking on the power steering rule:

1. You can already depower the rack with a "trick" pulley that spins without turning the pump, so this can be done.

2. Arguably -- arguably -- you can depower the rack since the lines are "free" and ... use your imagination.

So this change is just to "mirror reality" that already exists under the rules.

But my feeling is that we all have some trepidation because it sure does look like rules creep.

Thoughts/discussion appreciated.

erlrich said:
Has been up since Friday - the sauce is weak around here this month...

Minutes are here
Tech bulletin is here



Of interest - under "What do you think?"
  • "Member input is requested on whether an allowance should be made to permit disabling power steering assistance on IT cars, including allowing the fluid lines to be looped if desired."
Yeah, sure, why not...I mean, they don't have power steering on real race cars, do they? :rolleyes:

Interesting non-IT item; T3 as we know it is going away next year, but then in '13 SSB and SSC will be combined and become the new T3. The majority of current T3 cars will be moving to T2 (they also have ST as an option). I'm sure the T3 drivers - all 10 of them (including Mr. Chairman) are thrilled....
Click to expand...
 
Didn't motor mounts get covered a while ago and the answer was no?

Disable to power steering? Someone trying another angle at those core IT sticking points?

So I can put a VW engine in my Porsche, but I can't put a Nissan engine in my Nissan. Some consistency on policy and interpretation would be nice... Or did the liberals take over?! :p how far does this apply? Can I put a Mazda rotary in my subaru and put that engine in my Pontiac and put that engine in my toyota? Can the toyota's engine go in the mazda? That last one is not as big of a stretch as it sounds based on the precedent that appears to have been set...
 
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CRallo said:
Someone trying another angle at those core IT sticking points?
...
So I can put a VW engine in my Porsche, but I can't put a Nissan engine in my Nissan.
Click to expand...
Crissy-poo, focus: the engine mounts and power steering issue are Improved Touring, and the engine swap is Super Touring. "Improved" does not equal "super."

GA, thinking that Crissy-poo needs to put down those Monsters...s**t's bad for you...
 
JeffYoung said:
2. Arguably -- arguably -- you can depower the rack since the lines are "free" and ... use your imagination.

So this change is just to "mirror reality" that already exists under the rules.

But my feeling is that we all have some trepidation because it sure does look like rules creep.

Thoughts/discussion appreciated.
Click to expand...

No, no, no. So much intorturtation there it's crazy Jeff.

Quote us the 'lines are free' rule.
 
I'll go look for it. Don't folks add power steering fluid coolers? that would suggest?

In the interim, deal with the point about the pulley that essentially spins on a bearing -- all legal since pulleys are legal -- and doesn't drive the pump. Since that is free, why make folks go through that effort?

Andy Bettencourt said:
No, no, no. So much intorturtation there it's crazy Jeff.

Quote us the 'lines are free' rule.
Click to expand...
 
Here it is:

Oil pans, pan baffles, scrapers, windage trays, oil pickups,
lines, and filters are unrestricted. Oil and power steering hoses​
may be replaced with metal braided hose (i.e. Aeroquip).

What if my metal braided hose has a restrictor that effectively reduces or eliminates the assist?


 
I'd call it intorturation. Clever, no doubt, and worthy of GA Intorturation Status Level 2, but intorturation nonetheless.

That said, I support a SM-equivalent power steering rule in IT (I requested many moons ago, both from a selfish and a SM-allowance perspective, shot down...)

GA
 
JeffYoung said:
Here it is:

Oil pans, pan baffles, scrapers, windage trays, oil pickups,
lines, and filters are unrestricted. Oil and power steering hoses​

may be replaced with metal braided hose (i.e. Aeroquip).

What if my metal braided hose has a restrictor that effectively reduces or eliminates the assist?
Click to expand...

Yes, tortured for sure. The rule specifically allows a stock hose to be replaced with a metal braided one. TYPE not FUNCTIONALITY.

Maybe I will play along. How about custom 'mirrors' (free) that are thinly disguised aero winglets. These of course are wired into my 'data acq' system, and are programmed to electronically change position for maximum/minimum downforce by my design on a track by track and corner to corner basis.

Yes, yes. Excellent!
 
JeffYoung said:
In the interim, deal with the point about the pulley that essentially spins on a bearing -- all legal since pulleys are legal -- and doesn't drive the pump. Since that is free, why make folks go through that effort?
Click to expand...

I disagree that pulleys are free also. It says you can change diameter and material. That's it. You can't change the way they 'work' or in your example, 'don't work'.

The rules in IT tell you what you are allowed to do, nothing more.
 
Greg Amy said:
Crissy-poo, focus: the engine mounts and power steering issue are Improved Touring, and the engine swap is Super Touring. "Improved" does not equal "super."

GA, thinking that Crissy-poo needs to put down those Monsters...s**t's bad for you...
Click to expand...

LOL I'm well aware of all of this! "My Nissan" is no more my Nissan than "My Porsche" is my Porsche(seeing as I don't have one) I was speaking in general, as it were...

What, am I not allowed to comment on ST matters?

See? Matt understands me :)
 
Andy Bettencourt said:
I disagree that pulleys are free also. It says you can change diameter and material. That's it. You can't change the way they 'work' or in your example, 'don't work'.

The rules in IT tell you what you are allowed to do, nothing more.
Click to expand...

I agree. IMO, a free-wheeling pulley would be a perfect example of an allowed modification performing an illegal function... you've changed function from that of a drive pulley to an idler pulley, for which there is no allowance. I would argue the same logic applies to a "restricted" hose.

And one of my pet peeves - we really need to stop using the word "free" - it does not exist in the ITCS and so far as I can tell, never has.
 
CRallo said:
What, am I not allowed to comment on ST matters? See? Matt understands me :)
Click to expand...
Of course you can! But it's a lot like my driving down the road with my wife and she suddenly turns to me and says "I think we should paint it BLUE!" and I'm all like "WTF...?" and she replies "well, my GIRLFRIENDS know what I'm talking about!" and I'm all like "uuuh, huh...?"

Context matters.

GA, who - still - has NO CLUE what the two girlfriends are talking about...
 
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