Spec lines and variants of a car

Ron Earp

Ron Earp

Administrator
What's the deal with a variation of a car, say a convertible version of a car, and its classification in IT? Does it need its own spec line?

For example, in ITS the second generation RX7 came in a convertible variant. Can the convertible variant run based on the fact the RX7 is classed? Can specialized parts from the convertible RX7 be used in a coupe build?
 
Ron Earp said:
What's the deal with a variation of a car, say a convertible version of a car, and its classification in IT? Does it need its own spec line?

For example, in ITS the second generation RX7 came in a convertible variant. Can the convertible variant run based on the fact the RX7 is classed? Can specialized parts from the convertible RX7 be used in a coupe build?
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Find something on a drop top mustang you like? :P
 
tim240z said:
Find something on a drop top mustang you like? :P
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No, but trying to assess if I should start to look!

I thought that the RX7 guys that built the best cars used something from a convertible but I'm probably wrong about that. My old Jensen Healey was only a "roadster" so there was nothing to consider there. And the 260Z, well, only coupes so no choices.
 
if its the same car, generally, and has a hardtop avaialble for the convertable, then I think it's OK (like the TR8) but if the drop top version is somehow different, form the IT perspective, I'd say it demands a seperate classification.

as for convertable specific bits and pieces, say something like lower chassis braces or tie bars, I don't know how I feel about allowing those onto the tin top cousins as it lies outside of the additional suspension braces that are spelled out in the rules. certainly a greyish area.
 
As I mentioned elsewhere here, I think this is an important function of the ITAC's initial listing of any car, determining its spec line - or lines. It's an important consideration that once a spec line is established, we are granted freedom to up- and back-date (and cross-date?) among any years, trim levels, etc. that appear on it. The ITAC's listings need to made with that outcome in mind.

Some of the real issues have been chased our (e.g., the '92-95 Civic variants in A) but i suspect there are some oddities still to be addressed.

K
 
In your RX7 example the one part they steal from convertibles is the aluminum hood but my understanding is that part is only legal because it also came on a rare hardtop model the GTU.
 
I haven't turned up anything worth messing with or pressing the issue over. There are some subframe connectors specific to convertibles but they aren't that good and the cage would negate some of that need. I saw some lore that the convertibles came with a three point strut bar, now that would have been nice, but found out that's incorrect.
 
Ron Earp said:
What's the deal with a variation of a car, say a convertible version of a car, and its classification in IT? Does it need its own spec line?

For example, in ITS the second generation RX7 came in a convertible variant. Can the convertible variant run based on the fact the RX7 is classed? Can specialized parts from the convertible RX7 be used in a coupe build?
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No, they can not, it's not grey either. The rules state the car has to have the same body type in order to UD/BD.
 
IIRC, per the rules, if said vehicle is available in non-convertible form, than the convertible version is not eligible for classification.
 
CRallo said:
IIRC, per the rules, if said vehicle is available in non-convertible form, than the convertible version is not eligible for classification.
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YDRC, but you were close.

From 9.1.3.D.8.f: Convertible model cars are permitted if they were only available as convertibles (e.g. MG Midget), or if the convertible model is specifically allowed on the vehicle spec line.
 
how do you guys/gals research to see if an item was a factory or dealer option? just curious what others do... I know the sandbox has a similar thread.

Stephen
 
StephenB said:
how do you guys/gals research to see if an item was a factory or dealer option? just curious what others do... I know the sandbox has a similar thread.

Stephen
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Stephen,

I put these things into 3 catagories:

Factory: Ordered as a full brochure model or trim level and delivered to the dealer with all the equipment on it

Port Installed: Ordered as a full brochure model or trim level and delivered with all the equipment on it but some bits of that full model or trim package 'finished' as it comes off the boat.

Dealer option: Usually found in an 'Accessories' catalogue that can be installed prior to the new owner picking the car up, covered under warranty and rolled into the total price - but it's not a real trim package that you can order.

In your case, the Mazdaspeed stuff is NOT legal. I know you want that front facia that the GA guys run...I would too. :)
 
StephenB said:
how do you guys/gals research to see if an item was a factory or dealer option? just curious what others do... I know the sandbox has a similar thread.

Stephen
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I bought NOS Mustang brochures off Ebay for the 94-98 model years. Then I called Ford's Racing group and talked to them about what was available "back in the day" from the factory, either as legal IT options or as illegal IT parts offered via Ford racing.

I ended up taking to a fellow who has worked at Ford Racing for 20+ years and gave me the inside scoop on what Ford had planned for the 3.8L V6 but ultimately failed in doing. The idea was they could offer a base Mustang with a low specific output V6 that could be hopped up easily out of their catalog. They produced heads, intake, cams, etc. and an aluminum blocks for the motors (*EDIT - ALL ILLEGAL FOR IT*). In the end the demand never materialized because strippers living in trailers don't need fancy heads or cams for their hooptie, so the V6 program died off.

Ebay can be your friend for the brochures and other long gone informational literature. I scored some NOS factory Ford manuals there too for $25, a great deal.
 
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On the convert, it works two ways:

1. If the car only came as a convert, then putting it on the spec line means you can run the convert.

2. If it came as a coupe and a covert, then you have to have the convert added to the spec line to run it.
 
Ron Earp said:
I bought NOS Mustang brochures off Ebay for the 94-98 model years. Then I called Ford's Racing group and talked to them about what was available "back in the day" from the factory.

I ended up taking to a fellow who has worked at Ford Racing for 20+ years and gave me the inside scoop on what Ford had planned for the 3.8L V6 but ultimately failed in doing. The idea was they could offer a base Mustang with a low specific output V6 that could be hopped up easily out of their catalog. They produced heads, intake, cams, etc. and an aluminum blocks for the motors. In the end the demand never materialized because strippers living in trailers don't need fancy heads or cams for their hooptie, so the V6 program died off.

Ebay can be your friend for the brochures and other long gone informational literature. I scored some NOS factory Ford manuals there too for $25, a great deal.
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Still not enough information here Ron. Yes, the Ford Racing catalogue is a 'Ford' document, but if those hop-ups were not installed in Michigan and sent in a box to be installed at the dealer, they would be a no-go...
 
I don't think he is saying that they are legal, just that they were available from the factory.

The basic rule remains that the car had to come off of the production line for sale in the uS with the part on it for it to be legal.

Andy Bettencourt said:
Still not enough information here Ron. Yes, the Ford Racing catalogue is a 'Ford' document, but if those hop-ups were not installed in Michigan and sent in a box to be installed at the dealer, they would be a no-go...
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Andy Bettencourt said:
Still not enough information here Ron. Yes, the Ford Racing catalogue is a 'Ford' document, but if those hop-ups were not installed in Michigan and sent in a box to be installed at the dealer, they would be a no-go...
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Whoa there. No, I'm not saying that stuff is legal, of course it isn't legal. I'm just relating a bit of my experience talking with the guys at Ford. Helpful bunch. Also learned about the factory V6 road race car that Griggs ran for a bit (or tried to run) and some other stuff.

I've done a lot of research and the information I have for a 10/10th build involves production lots/years for blocks, heads, intake castings, and so on. All legal 94-98 parts but there are slight advantages to using say one year over another for reliability or performance.
 
Ron Earp said:
Whoa there. No, I'm not saying that stuff is legal, of course it isn't legal. I'm just relating a bit of my experience talking with the guys at Ford. Helpful bunch. Also learned about the factory V6 road race car that Griggs ran for a bit (or tried to run) and some other stuff.

I've done a lot of research and the information I have for a 10/10th build involves production lots/years for blocks, heads, intake castings, and so on. All legal 94-98 parts but there are slight advantages to using say one year over another for reliability or performance.
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My bad. Just not sure how it was germain to the topic if it was known illegal - even if they did produce - hense my response.
 
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