Stang Gang

J

Jiveslug

New member
Hey all, Jive again. I was just wondering how everyone was progressing with thier Stangs in the quest for ever more speed. I saw that Marcello had a pretty good year (well, except for the Big Event. That looks like that hurt! OUCH!) and I wanted to see what other kind of success you guys had. I also saw in the April issue of GRM (which I dont have, dammit) that there was an article about the ITB Stangs. Did anyone read that? Let me know whats up, cause I have included the Stang as one of my "final 3" for my racer project. Have fun!

Jive
 
The April issue article got sidetracked for a few issues, due to concurrent stories that were planned to run with it. But... I know of an article in the December issue (which should hit your door within a few days or so) that covers a certain Mustang I've seen a couple times
smile.gif
!!

BTW, thanks, and if you haven't seen it yet, you can go check out the pictures on my site, #88 is already back together, just three weeks after the big crunch.



------------------
-Marcello Canitano
www.SilverHorseRacing.com
Arthur Machinery - Official 2002 Sponsor
www.ArthurMachinery.com
SuperChips - 2002 Sponsor
www.SuperChips.com
ProForce - 2002 Sponsor
www.Proforce.com
 
I'm relatively new here, but I've got a line on a Mustang for next season. In the meantime, I've got Skip Barber's 3-day racing school in less than two weeks. Hope to be running in the D.C. region's MARRS--but only at Summit Point for the first season.

Sincerely,

Don
 
Originally posted by joeg:
Marcello--I got my GRM today and saw the article.

Congrats!!!
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Cool ! ! Thanks a lot! I haven't gotten my 51 copies yet (50 + my normal subscription issue) but I'm looking forward to it. If it is half as good as my 2001 Mustang Illustrated story on my other ride, I'll be very happy. I just hope my website is prepared for the traffic increase I'm hoping it'll generate.

Thanks again,



------------------
-Marcello Canitano
www.SilverHorseRacing.com
Arthur Machinery - Official 2002 Sponsor
www.ArthurMachinery.com
SuperChips - 2002 Sponsor
www.SuperChips.com
ProForce - 2002 Sponsor
www.Proforce.com
 
jiveslug, you mention on the rwd thread in another forum that these ITB mustangs weigh 2640 and IT legal 2.3s are doing 150hp? Marcello, can you verify if this is true? In carburated form, the 2.3s aren't able to match the 2.0s in peak hp. One reason is due to Ford's 2.3 intake manifold design.

They are great looking cars and you've done well with what many would consider a long shot in ITB.
 
Joe, I think that the difference has all to do with the EFI factor. Granted, my estimate may be a bit high, but not by more than 10hp..... I think. AM I completely off base here??? Marcello?? Anyone??? Bueller???

Jive
 
The horsepower is attainable, but it isn't easy within the confines of the IT rulebook. We squeaked out 146 (flywheel)from my last motor, and I think that I can get another 6-10 with some more tricks that I have up my sleeve if I build another B car.

One trick I will share is to go to the Mass-air EFI, because it is a very efficient design. Total / peak flow is a little less, but power across the band is better, and it's a snap to tune. The stock cam and intake were used in my last motor, so don't believe that you have to cheat to make the power. You just have to pay attention to the details...and the rules. The later motors were rated at 105Hp from the factory, and the Ranger (which only differed in exhaust) was 112.

HTH...



------------------
-Marcello Canitano
www.SilverHorseRacing.com
Arthur Machinery - Official 2002 Sponsor
www.ArthurMachinery.com
SuperChips - 2002 Sponsor
www.SuperChips.com
ProForce - 2002 Sponsor
www.Proforce.com
 
Did you use a chassis or engine dyno? If chassis, I guess your number is an estimate of flywheel hp. With good handling, brakes and 145ish hp, your mustang probably went pretty good. I used to race a Z20 engined 2600 pound Datsun 200SX and it handled a little better than my Capri so my lap times were about the same. Now, I only need to improve the brakes and handling of my Capri and I'll leave those Volvos, 2002s, Alfas, in 2nd place on....

I'm putting together my 2.0 Pinto motor right now and hoping to get it dialed in around 140hp after it gets broken in. I never did dyno my previous motor but my car would stay even with Pro 7 cars which are often dynoed at 140hp. This new motor will now have full legal compression and I'm installing a couple of EGT gauges so I can get the jetting dialed in. I suspect that the current jetting is quite fat. I wish I had EFI.

It's too bad that so few Fords are really competitive with the current ITCS rules.
 
It was on SuperChips' in-house chassis dyno. The biggest problem is not the power of the car, but getting it around the corner without flying off the track. 6" tires and 2600 pounds are hard to control compared to 6" wheels and 1900 pounds.... To be honest, the new motor did not do much for lap times, although it didn't hurt. What makes fast laps is keeping the speed up in the corner. Uh-oh, I'm telling the truth here again!
smile.gif
Of course, as you learn this, you learn why marginal cars can win in any class, and why sometimes what looks good on paper isn't the best performer out there. Just a little thought. What helped me the most over the past year was the new compund Kumho's, and right behind that was just the total amount of seat time I racked up. (two seasons with over 10 weekends each)

* Note to self : inject lies and half truths here....

smile.gif




------------------
-Marcello Canitano
www.SilverHorseRacing.com
Arthur Machinery - Official 2002 Sponsor
www.ArthurMachinery.com
SuperChips - 2002 Sponsor
www.SuperChips.com
ProForce - 2002 Sponsor
www.Proforce.com
 
Marcello, I know exactly what you are talking about. I'm looking forward to racing the Capri again next year after a 2 year hiatus. My driving is much improved and I've done a lot of work on the chassis which should allow me to improve the handling.

I actually hold the NASA PS3 Thunderhill track record in my 71 Capri at 2:11.3 on Toyo RA1s a couple of years ago. However, I did a high 2:10.9 ish during an enduro race on Kumhos(doesn't count for track record) in a 1980 PS3 Datsun 200SX. The Datsun handled so sweet (after lots of trial and error) and I could get all the power to the ground and maintain excellent corner speed. The car is probably pretty close to the Mustang in weight (2530 w/driver), and suspension design. 4 links solid rear axle and struts in front. Spherical bearings were the biggest improvement.

For a while, I was getting 195/60-13 Toyo tires for free and I ran them for quite a few events on 6" wide wheels. When the source dried up, I switched over to 206/60 and there was a definite improvement in traction.

I've been racing a NASA GTI Cup Wabbit and I've pretty much driven that car to it's limit. It's pretty stock, spec soft Neuspeed springs (no coil overs), no header, open diff, engine stock (std pistons, no mill etc.) and I can drive that car full throttle through most of Sear's Points corners. I even run the rear tires up to 60psi to loosen it up and allow the car to rotate in the corners. I'm only a couple of seconds off of the Sears Point track record and more power and stiffer springs would get it to record pace. However, my passion is currently the early Capri so that is where I'm focusing my energies.

We actually have quite a few Ford's actively racing in the San Francisco region. I'll have my 71 Capri out there in addition to a 71 and 74 Pinto. The early Pinto has the 2.0 motor and only has to weigh 2230lbs with driver if you can believe that. The 74 Pinto has a 2300 carb motor and 2490 pounds and is very nicely prepared although it is much slower. The early Pinto and Capri have won races but the region has been dominated by early BMW 2002s.

I'd love to see a Stang built and raced out here. Anybody looking to build one?

Joe Craven
71 ITB Capri
73 PS3 Capri enduro car
77 GTI Cup Wabbit
 
Actually, Im seriously considering the Mustang for my project and Im in So Pac. Of course, my plan is to attend as many Sears Point and Laguna Seca races as I can (I went to college in Santa Cruz). I know what you mean about the BMWs as well, as they tend to rule the roost down here too. Regardless, you'll probably be seeing me a bunch up in Nor Pac. On a different note, I noticed that an early Celica was having some success up there as well (Tom Agan). Of course, Im partial to stangs since the first car I owned when I was 16 was an 87 5.0 LX Coupe. Loved that car (sorry, gettin misty eyed here).... Anyway, you figure that a Stang could give those Bimmers a run for their money????
 
Jiveslug, the SF region BMW 2002 drivers have been running those same cars for years. Tom Agan and his Celica started racing before I even thought about it.. As Marcello put it, the most important ingredient for speed is the driver. The driver needs a lot of seat time and the car is secondary. I see too many newbie racers who redo their car every event, buy custom valved shocks, super stiff springs, wear through Hoosier tires like no tomorrow and mod their roll cages to add more stiffness to their chassis. I've tried to nicely tell them to spend their money on driving school and get more seat time. I can take my GTI Cup car with spec chassis which is too soft, hard Toyo tires, underpowered etc. and beat their trick cars by 4 seconds per lap.

To answer your question, it may be possible to beat the 2002s, Volvos, and Alfas but you'll never beat my Capri! Seriously, you are going to spend lots of time developing the car and when you and the car are nearly perfect, and the planets align just right it might be possible for them to beat them.

Buy yourself an well built and inexpensive car and learn to drive it. Looking back, I've totalled a few cars. If you push a car to it's limits with lots of other drivers, shit can happen.

I actually know of a few good beginner cars that might be for sale.

SF Wheel - There is a well prepared GTI Cup car for $2500

I know of a Capri for $1500 and a 77 Ford Pinto for less than $1000. I think $1500 for the Pinto and 2 axle trailer.

Building your own car isn't cheap, but can be satisfying. I built the Nissan 200SX, but I also enjoying improving what other people originally built.
 
I totally understand what you mean. Having experience and seat time, as well as knowing your car, makes a huge difference. Ive pretty much accepted the fact that Im not going to be fast for a while. What I am truly looking for is a car that will be relatively easy to drive and that I can grow into as I get better. I dont need to be the fastest car out there immediately. I want to start racing and develop my car as I develop my driving skills. A car that is mechanically simple and easy to find parts for would be nice. Thus, Im looking at the Fords and some Toyotas.........
 
Originally posted by Joe Craven:
Jiveslug, the SF region BMW 2002 drivers have been running those same cars for years. Tom Agan and his Celica started racing before I even thought about it.. As Marcello put it, the most important ingredient for speed is the driver. The driver needs a lot of seat time and the car is secondary. I see too many newbie racers who redo their car every event, buy custom valved shocks, super stiff springs, wear through Hoosier tires like no tomorrow and mod their roll cages to add more stiffness to their chassis. I've tried to nicely tell them to spend their money on driving school and get more seat time. I can take my GTI Cup car with spec chassis which is too soft, hard Toyo tires, underpowered etc. and beat their trick cars by 4 seconds per lap.

To answer your question, it may be possible to beat the 2002s, Volvos, and Alfas but you'll never beat my Capri! Seriously, you are going to spend lots of time developing the car and when you and the car are nearly perfect, and the planets align just right it might be possible for them to beat them.

Buy yourself an well built and inexpensive car and learn to drive it. Looking back, I've totalled a few cars. If you push a car to it's limits with lots of other drivers, shit can happen.

I actually know of a few good beginner cars that might be for sale.

SF Wheel - There is a well prepared GTI Cup car for $2500

I know of a Capri for $1500 and a 77 Ford Pinto for less than $1000. I think $1500 for the Pinto and 2 axle trailer.

Building your own car isn't cheap, but can be satisfying. I built the Nissan 200SX, but I also enjoying improving what other people originally built.
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