STL Wing Question

J

jfeniello

New member
The entire rear wing assembly, including the end plates and any wicker, shall be mounted a minimum of 6.0
inches below the peak of the roof. Cars with a wagon-style or hatchback body (e.g., Mazda Protege 5, Civic hatchback) may have the rear wing mounted a maximum of 4.0 inches above the roofline.

Just to clarify, any hatchback body (i.e. Acura Integra) follows the 4" above roofline?
 
That would be my take on it as well. However, I'd suggest that the intent of the rule is to apply the higher wing to a more-conventional squared-off "hatchback" design, such as the cars described in the rule. The point being, cars with a square roofline need the wing higher in order to get to clean air (put it too low back there and it's pointless.)

I'm an STL Integra owner, and I've already been giving thought to this as I plan how to do my aero. In fact, I was thinking about this last weekend, and I was planning on putting in a request for clarification to the STAC (full disclosure: I'm a member of the committee). While what you're describing is fully within the letter of the rules, I personally believe it's not within the intent, and I consider it my responsibility to "fix" that potential loophole (especially given my apparent conflict of interest).

However, I'm open to feedback before pursuing this. I'm kinda stuck between a rock (responsibility to clean up the rules) and a hard place (a competitor, and don't wanna screw up anybody already there.) Further, it may not get applied consistently; for example the 2-door Integra is a hatchback but the 4-door Integra has a conventional trunk...

Thoughts? Can anyone think of any other examples where an otherwise-coupe/sedan has a hatch?

GA

(As an aside, I don't think it will matter on the Integra; it only needs a minor wing for basic tuning, too much wing will be detrimental...)
 
S13 240SX came in coupe and hatchback and also fits the description you're questioning..
[Rice alert!]
Random google photos
Hatch: http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/imag/Smalle-GP-Sports-S13-front-.jpg
Coupe: http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc103/allntrlundrgrnd/DSC_0765-1.jpg?t=1274821860

I agree that allowing a wing on "square" hatch like the earlier civic Si is the intent of the rule, not to allow something with a sloped rear like the Integra or S13 hatch to be able to place the wing a foot higher than everyone else simply because they were called a hatchback.
 
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Yeah, I'd not get too attached to this definition, in as far as it applies to cars like the Integra and Mazda6. From a technical perspective it really makes no difference (I don't think you REALLY want a 2-foot-tall wing hanging off the top of your rear deck...?); from a rules perspective it really should be changed. We'll chat about it next meeting.

Ideas on how to resolve this are appreciated. - GA
 
Z3 coupe clearly is one of the cars that this rule targets for roof height +4", while the Z3 roadster with hardtop is obviously 6" below the roof peak. Now I was wondering, and Greg since you're addressing this subject, what's the height of the roof of a car without a roof? (Maybe, I should start arguing for the number of angles that can fit on the head of a pin:D *) So would it be 4" above the trunk lid, 6" below the top of the windshield, or 6" below the top of the roll bar?

*(this is a contentious and sometimes deadly debate amoung medieval ecleastical types)
 
Z3_GoCar said:
...what's the height of the roof of a car without a roof?
Click to expand...
Bwah-hah-hah! I have absolutely NO friggin clue! Oh, man, you guys are killin' me... ;)

Are you really giving serious thought to running without a roof? If so, I gotta wonder how effective a rear wing would be at all. I mean, with all that dirty air behind the windscreen and rollcage structure - remember, we don't allow cutting the windscreen down - I'm guessing it wouldn't matter at all...but if you are giving it serious thought, send a letter to the CRB and we'll talk it over. Wouldn't hurt if you made some reasonable suggestions on how to handle it (e.g., 6" below - or maybe even 4" above? - the highest part of the rollcage? Just thinking out loud). - GA
 
Toby's Z4 raced STU at the runoffs without a roof... Seriously, it's have to be at one of the slower tracks, where the air drag is compensated by the much lower center of gravity. I remember a topless Z4 winning at Laguna Seca, but that was Grand Am's ST class. After being on my roof, I'm probably going to keep the hard-top. But, there may be someone who thinks it's the ticket.
 
Toby's stink fast no matter what trim the car is. If he finishes the race, he beats my butt every time. but at least he's nice about it. :)

I would suggest for an open car that the wing should be 6" below the highest point of the car. that's where the roof would be if it were installed, so I think it stands to reason that's where the wing should be then as well.
 
Greg Amy said:
Thoughts? Can anyone think of any other examples where an otherwise-coupe/sedan has a hatch?
Click to expand...

late 80's fox body mustang/capri fastback.
nissan 300z
ford excort exp
civic crx
honda cr-z
vw corrado
late 80's camaro sport coupe
merkur xr4ti
supra
celica
corolla
prius
nsx
Audi tt
Saab 9-3
Porsche 924 and 944
 
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I've had some email exchanges with someone (thanks, Dave) that pointed out to me effective language already exists in the GTL rules that addresses both hatchbacks and open cars. I'm going to recommend we use this as a basis for clarifying this issue.

Relevant GTL rules; page numbers are from October GCR, and my emphasis:

9.1.2.F.14.C (p323):
"The entire wing assembly shall be mounted 6.0 inches below the highest point of the roof or roll cage main hoop whichever is higher measured at the highest point."

9.1.2.F.14.E (p323):
Cars with a wagonback/notchback/hatchback style body must have the entire wing positioned between 6.0 and 28.0 inches of the rearmost bodywork as measured along the vehicle longitudinal centerline, and a maximum of 4.0 inches above the highest point of the roof. For this subsection, a wagonback/notchback/hatchback style body (or variations of these) is a car in which the rear edge of the roofline is no more than 28.0 inches forward of the rearmost bodywork as measured along the vehicle longitudinal centerline.
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I've been told that the source for the 28" is that members of the GTAC "went around for weeks measuring dozens of cars. When they put it all together, 28 worked."

Seems reasonable to me... - GA
 
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