The Longest Day is Back! 24 hours at Nelson

H

Hahn63

New member
It's confirmed , the Longest Day is back and will be held at Nelson Ledges on August 24-26, 2007. I should have more information soon. :eclipsee_steering:

Let me know if you have anything you would like to see incorporated into the event. :birra:

This event will not be one to miss. The track is pulling out all the stops to make this return of the Longest Day the best ever. :smilie_pokal:

Roland
 
Expect us to be there. If you are looking for a ride, get in touch with us NOW rather than waiting until it's too late...

Kirk and the Gang
 
I like the move to late August. The Nelson 12-Hour was just too close to the SP 12, date-wise. Yeah...we do them all...but it's nice to have a little recovery time between the thrashes.

Several 'hopes' for the 24 at the Nelsonring:
Hope they include SRF (free entertainment)
Hope they keep the same stop & refueling rules as they've had at the 12 Hour (it works...don't screw with success)
Hope they add some of those little reflective thingys to entry and exit curbing, like appeared at VIR this season (I had a bad habit of falling off the exit of the Carousel in the dark at the Nelson 12 this summer).
Hope it rains (really)
 
SRF ... absolutley! Love to watch them too. :)

Refueling rules will be about the same, no big changes in store.

Working on reflectors , other ideas also in the works ( read possible lighting over sections of track)


NO.......rain.... I did say no right? :018:

So Kirk how may cars you bringing? :rolleyes:

Edited so I can type the right names.... too many cold tablets!


RacerBowie,

You have me( RX7) and Steve Colletti (Acura) for sure. Bring your "A" game we play hard and have lots of fun... What will you be running?

Roland
 
RacerBowie,

You have me( RX7) and Steve Colletti (Acura) for sure. Bring your "A" game we play hard and have lots of fun... What will you be running?

Roland
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We'll be running the ITA Miata that we just finished 3rd with at the VIR 13 hour. Hell, it held up so well it could probably run the thing right now with nothing but a brake pad swap!

A better tune on the dyno and some softer tires will make a big difference. I can't wait!

oh yeah, what are the refueling rules?
 
Last I was at Nelson was when RX-7 first gens were in SS, and we won...why go back if theres no room for improvement, LOL...I liked the event a lot, but the pits...ugg...are they still gravel??

Whats the general condition of the facility?
 
Jake,

I think you need to come back to Nelson and show us again how you did it! :D

The track is much better now that Scott and Keri Lane are running the show. Sections of the track have been repaved, drainage improved , the swamp was drained and the grass looks like a golf course! Pit lane still needs some help but it is not gravel and the last time I checked you shouldn't be racing on that part of the track. :rolleyes:

Come check it out you'll be pleasantly suprised at how nice the facilities are now....did I mention showers and flush toliets too!
 
Hope it rains (really)[/b]
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HELL YEAH. Sorry Greg. Sometimes it isn't about keeping my teammates happy.

So Kirk how may cars you bringing? rolleyes.gif[/b]
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How many do you need?

I started noodling on this challenge and, as much experience as we've had, I've never done a 24. My first question is, "What is the optimum number of drivers?" Then, "How do you use them?" If we just extrapolated our typical 4-driver rotation to a race twice as long as Summit, that would be seem to be a recipe for exhaustion - four stints separated by not enough time to actually recover...

I'd be tempted to think about something like six drivers, splitting the entire thing into two 12-hour races. One crew could just stay at the hotel until it was time for their half to start. The first could then go back to the hotel and sack out for half a day before coming back for the podium. :)

K
 
HELL YEAH. Sorry Greg. Sometimes it isn't about keeping my teammates happy.
How many do you need?

I started noodling on this challenge and, as much experience as we've had, I've never done a 24. My first question is, "What is the optimum number of drivers?" Then, "How do you use them?" If we just extrapolated our typical 4-driver rotation to a race twice as long as Summit, that would be seem to be a recipe for exhaustion - four stints separated by not enough time to actually recover...

I'd be tempted to think about something like six drivers, splitting the entire thing into two 12-hour races. One crew could just stay at the hotel until it was time for their half to start. The first could then go back to the hotel and sack out for half a day before coming back for the podium. :)

K
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Two words Kirk, Fuel Cell!

Seriously, I'm in, and let's talk about this off line.
 
Kirk & Bowie,
Since my ass is too big to actually drive anyone elses car, I will be available for beer drinking. :023:


I haven't been back to Nelson since June of 2001 because it was so bad back then, I just can't bring myself to go back. One day I will though because they seem like they've been making huge improvements to the track and the layout is an absolute blast.
 
HELL YEAH. Sorry Greg. Sometimes it isn't about keeping my teammates happy.[/b]
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'S Ok; I'll be in YOUR car... :D

My first question is, "What is the optimum number of drivers?"[/b]
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I've done 24s with four drivers; it's really not that bad. The key is that the not-driving drivers need to get away and not be bothered, and double-stinting is common in the wee hours (hey, as long as he's up, he's a better adrenalinized resource than waking up someone else from a deep sleep). Plus, it helps if the stints are longer than 1.5 hours...fuel cell, anyone?

Then again, with six drivers you still get about 4 hours' track time PLUS the expenses are spread out through 50% more pockets...
 
Kirk-

Just for curiosity... not sure if you are willing to share online or offline but what are the estimated expenses (budgeted) for a top notch effort like yours? I am thinking that an ITB Golf III is more expensive than a miata, but less than some oddballs like our cars, so I am wondering what a "normal" car might cost.

Raymond
 
The key is that the not-driving drivers need to get away and not be bothered, and double-stinting is common in the wee hours (hey, as long as he's up, he's a better adrenalinized resource than waking up someone else from a deep sleep). [/b]
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Amen.

I always seemed to be the "Prince of Darkness" at the Moroso 24's, doing the double shift when the creepy info-mercials and Rev. Gene Scott were on late-night TV. I always liked that (the double, not the creepy TV), and was always pissed when it ran out of gas for the second time. Hint: Select a pit near a porta-potty...or move one close. We dragged a big motorhome to the track, so 'off-duty' drivers and crew could catch some Zzzz's. Have earplugs.

"4" was our magic driver number for 24's. Attitude and "balance of karma" more important than outright speed. Musta worked...couple of 24 class wins...of course the Hondas welding their rotors to their backing plates trying to chase us down sure did help.
 
... Plus, it helps if the stints are longer than 1.5 hours...fuel cell, anyone? ...
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For the sake of discussion then, what's an optimum stint length? At one point when I suggested a 25-gal. cell, one learned individual said, "I sure as hell don't want to be in the car for 3-1/2 hours!" - or words to that effect.

If the tank is too big, the maximum time-in-car rules at most events will make it impossible to double-stint a driver. If that's a factor, the magic number at VIR would have been 2 hours' worth of gas.

K
 
For the sake of discussion then, what's an optimum stint length? At one point when I suggested a 25-gal. cell, one learned individual said, "I sure as hell don't want to be in the car for 3-1/2 hours!" - or words to that effect.

If the tank is too big, the maximum time-in-car rules at most events will make it impossible to double-stint a driver. If that's a factor, the magic number at VIR would have been 2 hours' worth of gas.

K
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Nothing personal to the person that made the comment, but if they're not prepared to do a 3 - 3.5 hr stint, they're not the person that you want for a 24 hr race. Double-length stints like that are pretty much required for a 24 hr race if you want any chance at a win.
 
Nothing personal to the person that made the comment, but if they're not prepared to do a 3 - 3.5 hr stint, they're not the person that you want for a 24 hr race. Double-length stints like that are pretty much required for a 24 hr race if you want any chance at a win.
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Disagree, a whole bunch.

If you've got a driver who can remain consistant thru a 3 hour shift, great. If not, no big deal. Consistancy is worth more than 'ass-in-seat time'.
 
... what are the estimated expenses (budgeted) for a top notch effort like yours? I am thinking that an ITB Golf III is more expensive than a miata, but less than some oddballs like our cars, so I am wondering what a "normal" car might cost.
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You really have to go through and add up what you expect it will be for your particular situation. Travel for example: We rent a cube van to lug all of our junk and for VIR, it was about $170 including fuel. It was approximately six times that for the trip to Summit. Entry fees are different, race lengths dictate fuel needs (we used about 100 gallons for the 13 and the test day), and we all do food differently...

To my way of thinking, what we might do differently than some folks is replace failure-point pieces proactively - hubs, bearings, CV joints, stub axles, etc. - rather than waiting until the bust. That costs, of course.

You also have to budget for amortization of the costs associated with building the car, over some reasonable lifetime (aka "using up the car"). Struts aren't a consummable (like tires or fuel) and don't get replaced as a matter of course, but they do have a lifespan. I actually have a per-hour estimate of what rebuilds, etc. cost and have in fact updated that math since we built a "real" IT engine to replace the stock one we ran for two years.

Short answer is that there is no short answer.

K
 
Disagree, a whole bunch.

If you've got a driver who can remain consistant thru a 3 hour shift, great. If not, no big deal. Consistancy is worth more than 'ass-in-seat time'.
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John,

How many 24hr races have you run or been a part of?

Let's do the math. If you cut stint time from 3hrs to 1.5 hrs, you've just doubled the number of pit stops. Figure you're going to lose at least one lap on a long course like VIR (~2:30 lap times) and probably 2 laps on a shorter course like Summit Point (~1:30 lap times). So, if you run 3hr stints, that's 8 stints and 7 pits stops (24hr race, assuming no unscheduled pit stops). Cut the stint time to 1.5hrs, and you kick your number of stints up to 16, but more importantly, you kick your number of pit stops up to 15. That's 8 more pit stops, which means 8-16 'lost' laps. That's at least 20 minutes that you 'give away'. So, yes, it is a big deal.

To my way of thinking, what we might do differently than some folks is replace failure-point pieces proactively - hubs, bearings, CV joints, stub axles, etc. - rather than waiting until the bust. That costs, of course.[/b]
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You forgot to add transmissions to that list!! :P
 
Considering it just a "time on tank" math problem is a gross simplication. Just because you CAN put a big cell in a car doesn't mean that you SHOULD put a big cell in there. Adding a bigger cell creates other problems...weight, handling and driver fatigue.

Most club racers are pretty much 'well-done' at the 2 hour mark. They don't do this often, and don't have experience pacing themselves. We watch lap times and will call for a driver change if lap times get erratic. In previous years, we'd pulled 'time cards' on rival driver's cars in other enduros, and run them thru a spreadsheet to see who the consistant drivers were...because we knew that consistancy and stability was more important than outright speed. At the Summit Point 12 Hour, the only year we were ever beaten in Showroom Stock, I had walked down pitlane pre-race and told one other team "YOU are our competition", even though there were 3 RunOffs winners running in several other SS cars. Ask Joe Leonard/5-Star of the DC Region...we knew that THEY would be the guys to beat us, based on their ability to perform. We told them pre-race that if we got beat, it would be by them...and it was them at the checker.

It's romantic to think that you'll have a team of drivers who will all perform well with 3+ hour shifts in the car, but it's fantasy. Somebody will end up on their roof, or stuck in a wall. That's a sudden reality-check that maybe it's not such a hot strategy, after all. Driver fatigue, and the inevitable problems that that will cause will more than eat up any benefits of "going long" on fuel.

Having all your drivers doing 3+ hour shifts, or even as a "passport to entry", is not a good idea. I'll stand by that.

How many 24hr races have you run or been a part of?[/b]
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Driven as a part of a 4-driver team at two 24 hour races. Driven as half of a two driver team at fifteen 12-ish hour races. And you ? Anytime you'd like to publicly compare racing resumés, let me know.
 
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