TOW TIRE TALES

bldn10

bldn10

New member
Is it just me or does everyone have problems w/ blowouts? I tow w/ a '95 Tahoe and have had different tire brands but the result is always the same - they never just pick up a nail and go flat - they have catastophic tread separation while pulling my car down the highway at 75. Just had one Sun. , a 60,000-mile Dunlop Rover w/ 25,000 on it literally disintegrated. Scary. Same w/ trailer tires. I have never had that happen on any car I've ever owned. What gives?
 
It always seems to happen within the first 100 yards of a 5 mile long construction zone with no sholders to pull onto and barriers right up to the side of the ultra narrow lanes.
 
Bill,
Are you setting the air pressure in the truck and trailer close to maxium before you start your trip ?
I always try to set the truck tires at 44 psi and the trailer at 50 psi.

The lower you have them set will result in higher tire temps and more side wall flex. The first time I towed my trailer I set them all around 32- 35 psi and the thing drove like a pig :bash_1_:
 
I tow with a 95 Dodge Ram 2500 purchased new in April 1996. All of the equipment in my previous truck (Approx 2000lbs) was transfered into the neew truck on the dealers lot. During the summer of 96 I drove from Atlanta to just outside Indianapolis where I had purchased a used 30ft Holiday camper. I repaced the dry rotted trailer tires, hooked to the camper with an equalizer hitch and sway dampner, and headed back to Georgia. The truck had about 2500 miles on the factory tires so I figured they would be up to the trip. They wern't. On the way both rear tires failed due to broken belts. I was able to make it into a tire store and have them replaced.
When I got got back to Atlanta I replaced all five tires with Bridgestone Vista Rib 265 LT235/85R16 tires. I have ran no other tire since. I have not had a single catastrophic failure in over 427000 miles. During that time I have made numerous trips to Florida and other points towing a 3500lb boat, A race car on an open trailer, a race car in a 20ft enclosed, and pull started many loaded semis (100,000lbs). All this with the stactic 2000lbs of equipment in the truck. I have the truck aligned annually, and check tire prerssure religously maintaining the manufacturer recommended 80psi. I have expierenced over 425,000 miles of trouble free driving since that first failure.
If you are expierencing catastrophic tire failure under load I would guess that you are exceeding the load capacity of the tires. Moving to a higher rated tire should reduce or eliminate your tire problems. I chose tires with a 10 ply, load range E, 3047lb rating. Blowouts are usually due to either tire damage or excessive sidewall flex. If the ply rating (stiffness) is too low the sidewall flexes more. Sidewall flex generates heat. Heat build up causes the tire to expand until somthing breaks.
Best way to minimize tire failure is to chosse a tire that is up to the job at hand, and properly maintain your tires.

Hope this helps
Chuck
 
I have just done a ton on research on this very topic.
The basics are this:
The majority of trailer tires are not made to the same standard as passenger vehicle tires. The Goodyear and Carlisle tires are total junk.

Little known facts: Most trailer tire manufacturers state that you should not tow above 68 mph. You should keep your trailer tires inflated to the maximum pressure, and many folks recommend bumping it up 5 - 10 lbs above that. Trailer tires should be replaced every 4-5 years regardless of how they look, or how many miles are on them. If there are any cracks in the rubber chances are moisture has gotten into the belts and are rotting them out from the inside out. Check your trailer weight, most would be surprized how close or how much over the tire weight rating they are.

If you can, increase your rim size to 16" and go with a commercial trailer tire.

I have heard/read that the Denman Tires are pretty good for 15"ers, and the commerical BF Goodrichs are for the 16"ers.

Always keep two spares on your trailer. Usually if a tire blows on one side, the stress put on that sides other tire will lead it to a premature blow out.

It just gives you a warm safe feeling towing, doesn't it?
 
After several years in the tire business, I saw many things happen to trailer tires and motor home tires that are very similar. Usually, the result was a peeoed customer that couldn't grasp the concept of dry rot and maintained air pressure.

Rubber, whether natural or synthetic, is designed to flex. If it sits up, as do most motor home and trailer tires, it develops a type of "arthritis". The less it flexes, the harder it gets, and that leads to premature aging, cracks, and shucked treads/slow leaks. Almost all catastrophic failures of a tire are a result of loosing air pressure. While this sounds overly simple, it doesn't necessarily happen suddenly. All tires are subject to pressure loss with the changing of atmospheric conditions. Add to that the age and neglect involving most trailer tires, and you set yourself up for a problem.

Heavier ply tires, such as trailer tires, also build up heat...the true enemy of tires. My trailer came with 6 ply, trailer tread tires. They were incredibly heavy and thick. If I'd been towing a vehicle similar in weight to a Rolls or a medium sized truck, they would do the job fine. As it was, they were overkill. The heat generated by them and their seldom use would translate into trouble down the road.

I took them off and replaced them with passenger car tires of a shorter, wider dimension. This may sound like heresy, but I've been doing it for years, with two different trailers. I shared the first with my car partner, and had only a very little trouble with the tires. ALL the problems (few) I had with tires on that trailer could be traced back to my partner loaning it out to people that abused it, and his towing it through a virtual mine field of screws, nails, etc. This that may not have immediately shown, but down the road led to tire failure. Now that I have my own trailer, it's used only by me for its intended purpose...no others, and it's parked in a nice, clean driveway.

Trailer tires take a lot of bouncing that passenger cars don't. Unless you have a large trailer with some sort of shock absorber system, then your trailer bounces much more than your tow vehicle as it travels, thereby causing more flex in the sidewalls of the tires, building up more heat, and leading to failure. Add to that their difference in turning arc in relation to the tow vehicle (they tend to catch curbs, edges of pavement, stones, etc.), and you subject them to more opportunities to failure. Also, if you tow with a tandem axle trailer (hopefully), then the tires do an ENORMOUS amount of twisting in every turn. They are designed to travel fore and aft with only a small amount of side load in their lifestyles.

All this leads to a shortened life span. Best advice is to get a good tire, maintain the (cold) tire pressure to the maximum molded on the sidewall, investigate whether or not you need a true, heavy, trailer tire, and change them out every five years...whether they are short on tread or not.

It's worth it when the alternative is changing a blown out tire on a loaded trailer on the side of the road in the night in the rain after a long weekend of racing. (voice of experience)

Long, but hope I helped. :024:
 
It's worth it when the alternative is changing a blown out tire on a loaded trailer on the side of the road in the night in the rain after a long weekend of racing. (voice of experience)[/b]
Click to expand...

That's why I have the Good Sam road assistance package. Hell, the motorhome doesn't even HAVE a spare tire!
 
I was thinking from the comments here that I have been running underinflated but the max pressure on the tires now on the Tahoe are 3 @ 35 and 1 @ 44. Chevy says 32/35 and I have generally run 35 all around. Can I pump a 35# tire to 50?
 
Bill, what kind of tires do you have on the Tahoe? Passenger tires (P) or light truck tires (LT)? I put LT tires on my suburban when I blew a right rear on it towing to St. Louis in 2001. Back then I had passenger tires. LT tires are rated higher and can handle more load than P tires. Hope this helps.

Phil
 
My old pickup ('92) ran passenger tires...275/60R15. I towed at 70 with them inflated to the max of 35 lbs. and never had a problem. They did wear out fast, but they did that whether I was towing or not due to their section width. Those I run now are a step between passenger and LT tires on 20" rims. They run higher pressures, but that's because they are huge.

When in doubt, look at the sidewall of the tire. All sorts of info is contained there in black and black. Load capacity, pressure, temperatue, wearability, etc. Wear, traction, temperature and stuff found on the tag are for personal info...sort of comfort food. The standards are arbitrary and are determined by the manufacturer...not a govt. agency.
The two things to note are ply rating (not necessarily true ply) and load capacity. Some of even the smallest tires have a load rating of over 1,000 lbs., static. Take a tandem axle trailer, and you have tires that will hold 4000 lbs. Most car/trailer combos are more than that, but it's an example.

In a vehicle such as your Tahoe, passenger car tires will work fine, but they will wear out faster than LT tires. The main difference is in how they handle adverse weather. LT tires simply don't have the traction in wet that car tires do...but they carry more load and wear longer. The trade off is heat. On a suburban, particularly a 3/4 ton, I'd run LT tires exclusively. You compromise the towing/weight carrying capacity on anything less. Simply put, if you feel you need that heavy chassis, then why cheat yourself.


Bill, if you've got a tire that is rated at 44lbs max. compared to 35 on the rest, someone did you no favors when you bought the replacement. I assume your wheels are 15 in or, maybe 16's. You've got a heavier ply tire on your Tahoe, and you should feel the difference in handling and ride.

Nothing sucks more that sitting on the side of the road with a flat on the trailer or truck. I've never had the problem on the truck, or the trailer since I took control of all the variables involved (that I can). I have had a hitch break, but that's another thread.
 
Right now I do have a mixed bag because I have had to buy one here and there on somewhat expedited basis (e.g. Wal-Mart somewhere in Ga. at 6 p.m. Sun. evening). Here is what I have now:

2 Dunlop Rover Touring LT P255-70-15 Std. Load 2183# 35# max.
1 Sigma Supreme TR " " " 44# "
1 Douglas Performance GT " " " 35# "

OEM was
Uniroyal Tiger Paw XTM P235-75-15 " 2026# 35# "

All of these were sold as "light truck" tires. I believe the load rating is generally 108 on these. If the 2183 is per corner, shouldn't these tires should be sufficient for a vehicle w/ a 5000# curb weight? I probably have an additional 750# in the truck and am pulling a 2nd gen. RX-7 on open steel trailer. FWIW my trailer has Taskmaster trailer tires.
 
While I have not (as of yet) had a blowout on a car or truck, I had two tires on the same side of the race car trailer (open, tandem axle) blow out on the way to St Louis two years back. The set was original to the trailer so were ~13 years old and getting weather checked. I just pushed it too far.... Was interesting sitting on the side of the interstate in the middle of nowhere, IL waiting for a tire guy to come replace tires since I only had one spare....

The trailer now has all new tires on it and I take an extra spare on longer trips just in case. I do try to keep the trailer tires up to their max pressure of 50 psi and crank the tow vehicle tire pressure slightly above vehicle mfg recommendations but not above tire mfg recommendations.

With the tire weight ratings, yes, they are per tire so if you want to be sure the tires are not overloaded, you should weigh each axle when loaded to make sure you are not overcapacity.
 
I didn't manage to steal...er, I mean, retain, a copy of the DOT numbers when they shut down my store. I won't tell you which brand it was, but it had a "stone" in its name. There are only a few tire manufacturers world wide, however, there are a quadzillion brands of tires. Two of the three brands of tires you have on your Tahoe, I've never heard of. That's not a bad thing...they could be made by Goodyear, Bridgestone, Michelin, or whoever. They may have been made in the U.S.A., Japan, Germany, or Zaire, but that's not a bad thing, either. There are different types of light truck tires. Tread designs and ply ratings will vary, that is why you have one that has a maximum p.s.i. of 44lbs. It's a 6 ply tire rather that a 4 ply or 4 ply rated.

Don't be confused with a tire that indicates that it is a 2 ply/4 ply rated. Old standards of rating dealt largely with bias ply, or bias-belted tires, not radial construction. They've since upgraded, but that's a whole different thread. If it reads that it's 4 ply rated, it's cool. Six ply is exactly that...six layers of tread cord...not tread...tread cord. Usually the tread itself is deeper than that of a four ply tire and is made of more resilient rubber. Bottom line is that 4 ply rides smoother and quieter, whereas six ply carrys more weight. Trade off is ride, some handling, and heat. That's why most heavy ply trailer tires have a top speed recommendation. Go beyond that, and you risk tire killing heat that causes separations of tread and tons of fun while towing.

As a suggestion, spend the bucks, get yourself a good set of matching brand and size-wise radial light truck tires, rotate them every 3-5000 miles, keep them at the max recommended tire pressure when you tow.
As for your trailer, I don't recommend the tall, hard, 6 ply trailer tires commonly seen on most trailers, but that's more of my opinion based on knowledge and experience than anything else. For your Mazda, I might consider a slightly lower profile LT or even passenger car tire.

The lower profile has two advantages. They give a little bit better stability in adverse conditions, and they lower the ride heighth of your trailer without losing the load carrying capacity. The advantage of the whole thing not sticking up in the air so high isn't just in a tiny little bit of fuel saved, but it makes the car easier to load and unload as fewer items(headers, air dams, etc.) will drag on the ramps. Add to that the greater availability of passenger tires over trailer tires should the accident happen on the road that precipitates the purchase of a new skin.

Tires on your trailer or tow vehicle should get at least a modicum of care demonstrated to your race car. You have always had one of the best looking and performing cars on the track, anywhere I've seen it. That's due to attention to details and bucks spent in the right places. If you're stuck on the side of the road with a tire that's headed south, or worse, one that's gone away in such a fashion as to do damage to the tow vehicle, trailer, or etc., then you may lose a chance to play with your race car.
 
Chris, all the years that we have known each other and I didn't realize that you were such a wealth of information. I have actually learned a few things from this thread. Thanks Bill and Chris.
By the way Chris, have you had your surgery yet?

Phil
 
Thanks for the compliment, Chris.

I got the Sigma from NTB outside St. Louis. It is a private label distributed by TBC Corp. right here in Memphis but I do not know who makes it.

The Douglas is a Wal-Mart private-label tire mounted and installed by the dept. manager after the shop had closed on a Sun. Maybe not the best tire but THAT is service. I believe it is made by Kelley-Springfield, a division of Goodyear.

I have searched the Internet but cannot find LT-rated tires in my size, 255-70-15 so I would have to go back to the OEM 235-75-15. I bought the rims years ago and could not find a 16" w/ the Chevy 5-lug pattern. Plenty in 6-lug but not 5. These are 8" - will the 235s be OK?

You guys don't want to hear about my REAL towing nightmares. Suffice it to say I had a wheel come off the Tahoe at 75 pulling the trailer between St. Louis and Memphis. Twice! :o
 
Bill,

As an "ex" Walmart tire center manager for 6 plus years (no axe to grind w/ them, I was well paid, well educated, they just wanted Mgrs. to live there..) in my opinion, you only need to get the LT tires in your OEM size on your truck to relieve your tire problems. Do as the others say, and keep them at the rated max pressure when towing, just make sure that they all are the same brand, size, and load rating, and you'll be good. You have a "mix-matched set on your truck now, and that is an invitation for blowouts. The 1st number in your tire size is the width in milimeters.. the 235 is only 20 mm smaller in width than the 255. Stick with the OEM width, as that was the size tire that all your suspension parts were designed around.
I am not the complete expert on al of this, just sharing what I've learned.
Good luck!
Mark P. Larson
CFR #164010
 
Chris, all the years that we have known each other and I didn't realize that you were such a wealth of information.
By the way Chris, have you had your surgery yet?

Phil
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Phil,
I'm just a little bit more than a pretty face attached to a failing body.

Surgery was two weeks ago...just got home this Wednesday. Really, really weak.

Nutshell: 2hr surgery lasted 11hrs. Three bypasses, a new valve, and a pacemaker. One bypass closed three times before they could zip me up. Heart stopped three times on the table, heart lung machine failed during surgery, nerve damage to the heart called for the pacemaker, but had to wait a week to have it installed as I was too weak to undergo the surgery. They had 13 IV's going in me at once. As a result, I gained up to 300lbs. I'm down to 189, pee all the time, and skin hangs on me like a parachute.

Tons of horror stories when we've got the time and a steady stomach. After a few months, I'll be back racing.
 
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