Toyo RA-1 coming back in 2010

Q

quadzjr

New member
I don't know if you noticed or not but in the recent "sportscar" SCCA and Toyo decided from input form the spec miata community to bring back the Toyo RA-1 as the spec tire for spec miata.
(Which in my opnion is a dumb idea, I believe that tires are to be tested and in spec sereis to introduce new tires, not a regression, the R888 is a faster tire if you know how to set it up, but ohh well.)


So for those guys that liked the RA-1 and never came to grips with the R888, it looks like you might have a chance to find new RA-1s again soon.
 
They should have just let them go open tire!

I don't think anyone (including those SMers who "figured out" the 888) could get the same life out of them as compared to the old Proxes
 
From what I have heard it will most likely only be in the SM tire size. If you run IT7 in the SEDiv yer SOL.

Unless you change rims which is $$$ I ain't got. ;)
 
quadzjr said:
I don't know if you noticed or not but in the recent "sportscar" SCCA and Toyo decided from input form the spec miata community to bring back the Toyo RA-1 as the spec tire for spec miata.
(Which in my opnion is a dumb idea, I believe that tires are to be tested and in spec sereis to introduce new tires, not a regression, the R888 is a faster tire if you know how to set it up, but ohh well.)


So for those guys that liked the RA-1 and never came to grips with the R888, it looks like you might have a chance to find new RA-1s again soon.
Click to expand...

Well the Spec Miata guys in the San Francisco Region pretty much unanimously agree that the R888 is not as fast as the RA1 and believe it or not, some of these guys know how to set up a car. I got a chance to drive a SM a few weeks ago for the first time and ran some worn out RA1s for a few sessions, then I put on a fresh set of 4/32nds R888s to break-in for a session. They were awful. I have been told that they need to break in and then that get faster, so we'll see this weekend.
 
Even though it is more than likely more of a progression of the total package, in Speed racing series, Track records have been smashed with the R888's compared to the RA-1's.
 
quadzjr said:
I don't know if you noticed or not but in the recent "sportscar" SCCA and Toyo decided from input form the spec miata community to bring back the Toyo RA-1 as the spec tire for spec miata.
(Which in my opnion is a dumb idea, I believe that tires are to be tested and in spec sereis to introduce new tires, not a regression, the R888 is a faster tire if you know how to set it up, but ohh well.)
Click to expand...

You're largely missing the point. Spec Miata is supposed to be an entry-level series or at least one that caters to beginning racers. The R888 may be faster but SM racers have found that the RA1s are more durable (last more heat cycles), more consistent throughout their lifetime, more affordable, more user-friendly (less particular about how they're worn in, heat cycled, etc.). SM is a spec series (or is supposed to be, anyway) so it doesn't matter how "fast" a spec tire is, as long as everyone is one the same tire.
 
Even though it is a spec series, I still woudl make the assumption that Toyo would use the data gathered to build a better tire. If they just took into consideration for what you described, they could of just given the SM communtiy a rock hard tire, that would last all season (The RA-1 doesn't seem too far off that).

I jsut like the idea of more possilbe take offs for me. I am not worried about being upfront just yet.
 
quadzjr said:
If they just took into consideration for what you described, they could of just given the SM communtiy a rock hard tire, that would last all season (The RA-1 doesn't seem too far off that).
Click to expand...

I would not agree with that I have seen track records broken in ITA using RA-1's. The tire can be very fast. Just depends on the setup and the driver always is the biggest equalizer!
 
cjb25hs said:
I would not agree with that I have seen track records broken in ITA using RA-1's. The tire can be very fast. Just depends on the setup and the driver always is the biggest equalizer!
Click to expand...

I am a bit confused.. I never said that the RA-1 or the R888 set track records in any IT class. Neither one of the tires from my understanding and from the TOYO rep are as fast as the Hoosiers and possilby Hankooks, Kumhos. They did however sset track records in spec series that are required to run them (speed touring, speed GT, SM, etc...)
 
quadzjr said:
I am a bit confused.. I never said that the RA-1 or the R888 set track records in any IT class. Neither one of the tires from my understanding and from the TOYO rep are as fast as the Hoosiers and possilby Hankooks, Kumhos. They did however sset track records in spec series that are required to run them (speed touring, speed GT, SM, etc...)
Click to expand...

The only point I was making is that they can be almost as fast, depends on car, driver and setup. At my last weekend out an ITA civic on Toyo RA-1's set a new track record at Beaverun of about 1 second faster than the old track record set by a very good driver/car combo in a ITA crx. That same ITA crx holds the ITA record at Nelson Ledges, at both tracks he was running Hoosiers.
 
quadzjr said:
Neither one of the tires from my understanding and from the TOYO rep are as fast as the Hoosiers and possilby Hankooks, Kumhos.
Click to expand...

This is my experience. I am faster on Hoosiers and Kumhos than on RA1's. I have never run Hankooks personally, but a Civic that competes with me runs them and he is as quick as me on Kumhos.

I think the story is a little different for Miatas, but I have no experience. Maybe ITA Miata drivers could tell you if they are any faster on Hoosiers, Kumhos, Hankooks, etc. than RA1s or R888s.
 
***the R888 is a faster tire if you know how to set it up, but ohh well.***

Dude, I'm all ears. We have completed 6 nationals using 4 sets of R888's with considerable testing. To what we think is correct, what Toyo thinks is correct, to what others think is correct & the friken tires do no equal the RA1's............................... The work very well on cars heaver than the Spec Miata.

Lay it on me, because we are heading to Road America tomorow for more testing & a National race.

EDIT: This is a front of the pack car.
 
I have no info for the SM community explicitly.. I have heard of all sorts of the possible solutions..

The Toyo rep said less camber, and caster than the RA-1 will get you in the right direction.

I spoke extensively with a Tri-point and Realtime engineer and they seemed to agree with the Rep's statement. Both engineers weren't too excited about the tire either. both cars are quite a bit heavier than an SM. They also swapped out tires after each session on track.

A broad comparison between a Touring car and a SM. The Touring cars are heavier, and have more power thusly you can assume that they load the tire to a much greater extent than an SM. I think we can agree on that..

So how do we load the tire more... I have some ideas.. you would have to have quite a bit of data.. I have heard people running cold pressures as almost as high as their hot pressures and seeing significant gains, while others tired it and shown negative effects. Others played with tire temps across the tire. Some believe that it should be a bit with a slight emphasis on the inside, however to much (campber) causes the tire to just overheat and start a horrible wear situation.

Like I said.. everyone is looking for the golden ticket. What I do know is that records have been set with the tires, HOWEVER it may be more of a sign of the total package than the tires themselves.
 
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