U.S. DOT# required on NYS Trucks over 10,001lbs

DaveITB1

DaveITB1

New member
I just came across this site after a conversation with my dairy farmer neighbor. I was wondering if any of the NY State residents have gone through this process and put a DOT# on the side of their tow rig? Is there a size and location requirement for the lettering/numbering?

Between my F350 Crew Cab, enclosed trailer, and my race car, I will be well over the 10K limit. Also, have you all been stopping at weight stations when hauling to/from the race track? What's the word out there? I did a forum search on the topic, but came up with bupkiss. I remember some discussion surrounding this a long time ago. What's the update?

http://www.nyfb.org/FactSheets/DOTnumber.htm

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US DOT number now required on vehicles over 10,001 pounds

New state regulations require that all trucks, including those with agricultural plates, that have a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) or Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) (whichever is greater) of 10,001 pound or more must be marked with a US DOT number.

THESE TRUCK MARKINGS NEED TO BE APPLIED BY JULY 5, 2006.

The only exemption that agriculture has from these regulations is for trucks weighing less than 26,000 pounds that are registered with a ‘farm plate’ and driven only within New York State.

For more information on these new regulations view the April Grassroots article on this topic at: http://www.nyfb.org/Grassroots/grass0405/DOTnumber.htm

The NYS DOT also has made information available at: http://www.dot.state.ny.us/markingregsnotice100504.pdf

A farm can register for a US DOT number on line at: https://li-public.fmcsa.dot.gov/LIVIEW/PKG_...TION.prc_option

When filling out the application on-line you will need a credit card for verification purposes only.

The forms are also downloadable and printable at: http://safer.fmcsa.dot.gov/public/MCS-150.pdf DO NOT SEND THE FORMS TO THE WASHINGTON DC ADDRESS LISTED, INSTEAD THEY SHOULD BE SENT TO:

NYS Department of Transportation
50 Wolf Road
POD 53
Albany, NY 12232
IF YOU ARE ONLY TRAVELING WITHIN NEW YORK BE SURE TO CIRCLE/SELECT ‘INTRASTATE.’ Those carriers marking ‘interstate’ will need to comply with further requirements such as safety audits.

There are several companies available that will put together DOT number placards.
 
I'm not in NY, but that says that trucks with a GROSS WEIGHT over 10K need the stickers. That's the GVW, which does not include any trailers (that would be the GCW, the Gross Combined Weight).

So you should be okay with an F350, at least if it's a 2005 or earlier. No 2005 F350 had a GVWR above 10K, unless you have a chassis cab or pickup-box-delete option.

See this link for all the specs: https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/non-ht...iessd-exlbb.pdf
 
It has been about 5 years since I enforced any of the Motor carrier safety laws but, unless something has changed. There is a test that you must pass in order to fall under the myriad of federal regulations regarding commercial motor vehicles.

The test is simple, are you engaged in commerce, across statelines, that involves the transport of property or persons?

Below is a quote from 49 Code of Federal Regulations section 390.5 "definitions"

"Commercial motor vehicle means any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle—

(1) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater; or

(2) Is designed or used to transport more than 8 passengers (including the driver) for compensation; or

(3) Is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, and is not used to transport passengers for compensation; or

(4) Is used in transporting material found by the Secretary of Transportation to be hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and transported in a quantity requiring placarding under regulations prescribed by the Secretary under 49 CFR, subtitle B, chapter I, subchapter C."

My bolding in the above passage.

Read closely, you must meet the provisions of the first caveat, (letter B) AND one of the other provisions(1,2,3 or 4.). If you do not meet both sections then you are not a commercial motor vehicle.

Bottom line is that for PERSONAL transport too and from the race track for your HOBBY you could drive a 53' tractor trailer and not be required to meet the safety regulations, obtain a commercial driver's license etc, etc.

I asked that specific question many years ago during a training session. While things may have changed, I will not stop for a weigh station while towing my race car. Enclosed trailer or not!

That does not mean I won't get stopped and checked and or receive a ticket. But this is a hobby, I lose money at it and my read of the laws from the above quote says that NONE of the laws apply unless I meet the definition of a commercial moter vehicle.

FARMERS will ALWAYS meet that definition, even on a farm truck.

Your mileage may vary and I hope I haven't confused you.

I am sure some of the legal beagles will chime in as well. That reminds me of an old joke, what do you call 1,000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?





















you know the answer! :happy204: :happy204: :happy204: :happy204:


BTW, if anyone would like to review the laws, here is a link

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-...1.1.2.33.1.11.2

Enjoy :bash_1_:
 
This comes up every couple of years or so. For a really long read on what happened to Dave Lemon (sp?) of Mazdatrix fame head over to the prodcar board and do a search.

To make a long story short, the state DOT in Arizona (or was it California?) has decided that club racers are racing for 'gain', in that they might win a plastic trophy and the end of the day, and are thus commercial haulers. IIRC, they effectively impounded his rig until he could hire a CDL driver to drive it to the state line for him.

None of this applies, of course, to grandpa and grandma driving their 45,000 lb bus conversion motorhome with air brakes flat towing a jeep liberty at 55 in the passing lane. :bash_1_:
 
There are quite explicit exemptions for transportation of personal property...for occasional hobby uses...in th USDOT regulations. Most cops and enforcement agencies don't bother to read that far into the rules, but they're in there.

In addition, the FMCSA (Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration), the division of the USDOT that writes the USDOT regulations for truck transport in the U.S., in their own current 'guidelines' for the application of their own rules, also defines the specific exemption for "personal and hobby" uses, and goes further to state that unless the activity generates a W2 or 1099 for taxation purposes ("Taxable income"), it falls under the "personal and hobby" exemption. Again...you have to read the WHOLE law, and not just stop at the point where is says something like "you can't do that...".

Can't cite the relevant part of FMCSA regulations, or the section out of the CFR...don't have it handy now....but I carry a copy in my truck, for the inevitable conversation at the side of the road. Cops don't like being told that they're wrong, but when confronted with actually documentation of the relevant regulations, they back off.

So...if you're a lawn-mowing service and your 1/2 ton pickup truck and open trailer with lawn-mowers weighs 10,002lbs gross, you're required to have have a USDOT registration and comply with all the hoopla that they require. If you're an amateur racer, towing your enclosed trailer with just your personal crap in it with a gross of 16,000+++lbs, you fall under the Federal exemption. You might have some State requirements to adhere to, but if somebody tells you that it's Federal regulations that require USDOT registration, they're talking crap.

You do NOT want to get a USDOT registration. Trust me...a small but annoying part of my job includes overseeing the regulatory compliance of our large highway vehicles here, so I get to do it all the time. You do NOT want to do it for your personal stuff.

I think if you look into the MazdaTrix problem mentioned previously, it was somebody with a LARGE rig with large graphics that just didn't pass the 'sniff test' when he claimed that it was a 'recreational vehicle'.
 
There are quite explicit exemptions for transportation of personal property...for occasional hobby uses...in th USDOT regulations. Most cops and enforcement agencies don't bother to read that far into the rules, but they're in there.

<Snipped>

... if somebody tells you that it's Federal regulations that require USDOT registration, they're talking crap.
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I can't disagree with any of that, to my understanding you're 100% correct.


I think if you look into the MazdaTrix problem mentioned previously, it was somebody with a LARGE rig with large graphics that just didn't pass the 'sniff test' when he claimed that it was a 'recreational vehicle'.
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Also true. Dave's is a large rig, toterhome and 40+ foot trailer. I should have said that before. I wasn't trying to mislead anyone, and I did say I was making a long story short...

The Mazdatrix rig may not pass the 'sniff test', but I understand it does meet the published standards of a recreational vehicle / motorhome, that is it does have running water, an onboard crapper, 120V power, inside cooking facilities, etc., so the 'sniff test' isn't really relevant. No, I don't have the CFR section memorized but IIRC there is a list, and to be considered an RV you must have four out of the six (or some such). I could probably find it again, if someone is really interested.

I believe that, per the federal regulations, a toter towing an enclosed trailer is no different than a class A towing an SUV, but have you ever heard of something like Dave's situation happening to left-lane grandpa?

The point I was trying to make is that it doesn't really matter what the law is, if the DOT cops feel like screwing with you they will. If they feel like it late on a Friday night, you may not make it to the races on Saturday. If they perceive you are a snotty rich kid who likes to play with race cars, they may feel like it more than they otherwise would. Discretion is the better part of valor, I've been told.

If you, John, carry a copy of the rules with you, you're probably more likely to end your encounter quickly and painlessly.

If you could tell us exactly which rules apply, and where to purchase a copy of those rules, we could all do the same and I, for one, would be grateful.
 
Looked it up...it's all on the FMCSA website - www.fmcsa.dot.gov

Here ya go:

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations...ection_toc=1738

390.3(f)"Exemptions":

390.3(f)(3) -
"The occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise"


And the FMCSA's own guidelines for the application of their own regulations, at:

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations...1738&guidence=Y

Note question 21:

"Question 21: Does the exemption in §390.3(f)(3) for the "occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise" apply to persons who occasionally use CMVs to transport cars, boats, horses, etc., to races, tournaments, shows or similar events, even if prize money is offered at these events?
Guidance: The exemption would apply to this kind of transportation, provided: (1) The underlying activities are not undertaken for profit, i.e., (a.) prize money is declared as ordinary income for tax purposes, and (b.) the cost of the underlying activities is not deducted as a business expense for tax purposes; and, where relevant; (2) corporate sponsorship is not involved. Drivers must confer with their State of licensure to determine the licensing provisions to which they are subject."


I actually got to have this conversation with a Trooper once. I was civil & polite, but I always refuse to do the obsequious, boot-licking 'Oh yes sir' crap. We'll let the judge decide it...and nobody wants to get pantsed in court....needless to say no paperwork was issued.
 
In addition, the FMCSA (Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration), the division of the USDOT that writes the USDOT regulations for truck transport in the U.S., in their own current 'guidelines' for the application of their own rules, also defines the specific exemption for "personal and hobby" uses, and goes further to state that unless the activity generates a W2 or 1099 for taxation purposes ("Taxable income"), it falls under the "personal and hobby" exemption. Again...you have to read the WHOLE law, and not just stop at the point where is says something like "you can't do that...".
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I've gotten more than a few 1099-MISCs over the years from contingency earnings from racing. Uh oh.
 
What John has said pretty well sums it up. The problem you can run into though is this - you own a company that does something including driving. Normally all you're guys run around w/ light trucks, but you buy an F350 under the company name to haul your toys on the weekend. No problem hauling the toys, but on Monday morning the 10,001 CGVW and it being owned by the company, on company business puts you into DOT land.

The DOT rules are tough to determine at best.
 
What John has said pretty well sums it up. The problem you can run into though is this - you own a company that does something including driving. Normally all you're guys run around w/ light trucks, but you buy an F350 under the company name to haul your toys on the weekend. No problem hauling the toys, but on Monday morning the 10,001 CGVW and it being owned by the company, on company business puts you into DOT land.

The DOT rules are tough to determine at best.
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What about owning it as an individual, renting it to the company and declaring the rental income to the IRS?

I'm not in this boat, just curious.
 
I've gotten more than a few 1099-MISCs over the years from contingency earnings from racing. Uh oh.
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The guideline John quotes seems to say that as long as you're declaring it as personal income then you're fine. I think it'd be hard to say that getting a 1099-MISC shows you're racing for profit.

David
 
Some states say if you are towing a trailer that is rated for more then 10,000 lbs you need to cross the scales so the can of worms gets opened.

There is one thing that tips the DOT off to your weight it is the DOT reflective tape on the side of your trailer. Trailer manufactures are required to put DOT reflective tape on trailers rated for over 9,000 lbs. So if you have a 10,200 lbs rated trailer it will have the DOT tape down the side which can be seen night or day from most scale houses or the road side cameras.

I am not saying anything but a heat gun and some spray from 3M will make it easier.
 
Ron - I don't know about anywhere else, but in Oklahoma, it appears you get reflective tape on just about any trailer big enough to haul a car. My open 18 footer is rated at 7000 lb gross weight, but it has reflective tape running down both sides. As I recall, so did every other 16-18 footer I looked at when I was looking for a new trailer, and they were all in the same 7000 lb GVWR range.
 
I tow a 48' with a crew cab Dually and every time I go to VIR they use me for training. I get stopped every other trip by some young DOT officer. They check weight rating on the tires, weight tag on truck and trailer, and even wanted a title for any car in the trailer (just one smart A--). One guy told me nobody spent that much money on just a hobby and I had to be a business (good thing the wife was in the truck while he made his estimate). I keep a folder with registration for truck and trailer with 26000 lb stamp for tag, titles if I have them, and I keep a CDL for the bright light that is convinced he found a loophole. I do cross the scales and have never had anything other than a question through the window about how much I am tagged for. With both cars and junk I run between 24 25000#. Keep all the lights working and tires in good shape and you should get by fine. Do not carry much fuel if you let them in the trailer--less than 50 gal I think or you need a placard.
 
The long and short of it is that if a trooper wants to pull you over, they will. And they can ruin your weekend. We have always tried to comply. However, Chris' brother has dogs (Vizlas) and horses. He got pulled over on the way to an event, and they escorted him to a weigh station and inspected EVERYTHING. It took him hours to get out of there.

Maybe we need a sticky just for the FACTS so that we can all print them off and have them with us.
 
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