Voluntary RANDOM car inspections (oh my!)

S2_ITBVW

New member
As I have been working to build my car in a manner that is compliant with the rules I have been alternately encouraged and discouraged by the comments of fellow competitors. The folks that I have encountered typically seem to fall into two main groups. The members of the first group work hard to develop their cars to their potential within the parameters established by the GCR, and actually ENJOY the challenge of being competitive AND legal. The second group is the group that says “everyone cheats” and, for that reason, cheat themselves. I’m disappointed by the number of times I have had someone say this to me. I recently sent an email enquiring about a “fast” car that was for sale and explicitly asked if the car was legal. The off handed response was, “All the fast cars in IT are illegal.” As a fairly new participant who is sinking a bunch of time, money and effort into the legal development of my race car this sent me into a bit of a tailspin where I questioned the investment I am making when I know that someone can make the same or greater gains with an illegal cam and pistons. I would really love to know that there are some contingencies at play working to keep things legal. As I read through the dialogue on here about all the conflict and emotion that arise from protesting someone else’s car, I can see why it would be something that most folks would hate to do. Pitting one driver against another has its own set of contingencies that would cause most to avoid protesting another car unless you were absolutely sure that there was non-compliance. Since no one really has the ability to examine another race car (and in many instances lack the expertise to know what they are looking at if the car is unfamiliar) it just seems unlikely that this is a truly effective way to inspire compliance among participants. It’s been my experience that the best way to handle a compliance situation like this (i.e., where non-compliance is not immediately obvious) is with RANDOM testing. You could simply draw a car number (or a few car numbers) out of a hat after the last Saturday afternoon on track session at each event and subject those cars to a “reasonable” inspection (e.g., cam, fuel, track width, etc.). Basically, the inspection could inspect whatever can be inspected without tearing things apart in a way that might be too difficult to put back together. Sure, illegal components could be added after the Saturday inspection, but somehow I doubt it (if for no other reason than it’s pretty easy to observe someone dropping in a new cam at the track).

Heck, I would be willing to be a part of a group of drivers that voluntarily participate in something like this. To make it more positive we could all throw $20 into a pot so that the “randomly” selected cars/drivers not only get inspected, but they get to split the “pot” too. It might make it less aversive if the driver dealing with the inspection gets $100 for his/her trouble. This could “encourage” other drivers to participate. I think just the ongoing presence of activity like this would begin to exert the kind of “pressure to comply” that we want at the track. At the very least, folks will know that “everyone does not cheat.” I think things like this will be the only way that we are going to get more folks to take compliance seriously.

OK, why is this a terrible idea?
 
Great idea!!! But I dont think it will go anywhere other than just talk... In my personal experience I have had my engines completely apart (head off the car) sitting for anyone to inspect. People come over and offer help to get back on track but were not really interested in taking the time to inspect things even when I encouraged it. At Watkins Glenn I even tried to protest myself to have tech measure things and do what they would do if a motor was torn down. I was quickly encouraged by everyone at the track (NOT JUST tech or the Stewards) to back down and enjoy the rest of he weekend helping my brother.

The reality is you need to find a group of people willing to do this at the track rather than hang with family/friends, watch racing, and enjoy after race beverages.

Hope this doesn't get you down, we have been trying to figure this one out for years!!!

Raymond
 
The IT National Tour "open-hood policy" will be in force at the IT Festival. That will be a good first step but probably not enough to change the culture by itself.

K
 
It's not a bad idea at all. I honestly think the majority of the fast / good drivers are legal. I know there have been a few people that I questioned in the past.

Okay, since Ray posted lets bring his Audi into play. A few years ago, I straight up asked him if his car was legal. There's supposedly some other type of Audi head that people were starting a rumor that he and his brother were using. I admit that I was curious. Ray and I spoke nicely, I mentioned my concerns, and he welcomed me to take a look at any time. Our conversation went well, I'm glad that we talked instead of just letting more rumors become created, and it all worked out well. He's more than welcome to check out my car and talk with me, and vice versa.

If you or someone else feels that there's a car out there which isn't legal, approach that person nicely. Do your homework - see Kirk's VW post. At least in the N.E., I think our group has been pretty good at working together to keep things legit. No, I haven't been a part of a tear down but am not afraid to have anyone look at my car either. The head is off now; I welcome help putting it back together. :D

I've been on the other side too. Some guy in the Lime Rock store was talking about how the front ITB drivers all cheat. His friend drives in ITB, and was also complaining about it. I couldn't help but chuckle. I told them that I drive the Prelude in ITB. LMAO! "Oh." I then told them that there's a HPDE coming up, why don't they bring their ITB car, have a right seat in it and I'll help him get faster. The response was "I don't need coaching." There are plenty of other drivers taking this position too.

At the same time, it's important to learn the process of protesting a car and from others experiences. Even the threat of a protest goes a long way. Talk with a few drivers from your class, mention the idea of doing a protest based on picking from a hat, or other ideas they might have. There are some ways of doing this which can keep things lite, and not feel like the group is going after one single competitor.

In the end, you need to do what feels right. I've been in your shoes, thought about how easy it might be to put an illegal cam in my car, but at the end of the day I won't be proud of my accomplishments. No one else is going to care or remember that you won a race at whatever track, only you.
 
I

In the end, you need to do what feels right. I've been in your shoes, thought about how easy it might be to put an illegal cam in my car, but at the end of the day I won't be proud of my accomplishments. No one else is going to care or remember that you won a race at whatever track, only you.

+1 on Daves comment...

I have been on the stewards side in a VERY expensive SM protest... The car was legal and I bet that driver was very proud of his acomplisents, I know I was!!!

Mechanical protests are a lot of work for VOLUNTEERS (Remember we are only one category and we are not always the category that got the volunteer interested in coming to the track). You need to organize a group within the group to self police (do these unofficial checks) but like I said when it comes down to it people are not that interested once they get to the track... Especially if they are beating the "questionable" car.

I love the idea, just sharing my thoughts from my experiences.

Raymond
 
I can assure you that most of the front runners don't cheat........ I know it gets discouraging but you gotta work on developing yourself and your car and not worry about what other people are doing or saying..............
 
I can assure you that most of the front runners don't cheat........ I know it gets discouraging but you gotta work on developing yourself and your car and not worry about what other people are doing or saying..............

I agree, you are either not talking to the right people or you are listening to the wrong kind of people. The kind of people who think anyone ahead of them is there because they cheat.

You didn't even mention the bulk of drivers, people who do this for fun, don't purposely cheat to gain an advantage, probably have a few things not legal on the car. Are not interested in complaining about someone else's missing washer bottle or incorrect valve cover and assume most people feel the same about their "illegal" windshield wiper switch.
 
I have no issue with open hoods but am not interested major work unless it is a championship event like the ARRC.

And there is a difference in illegal and cheating in my book. I think could find something wrong on nearly every car (I had to remount my transponder lower and now have 4 1/4" holes in the inner fender no longer used) that would be a chicken-shit protest.
 
Impound & weigh top 3 in class = good
Open hood in impound = good
Teardowns at regular event = not realistic
Teardowns at big events = OK if we have vols with the tech experience on lots of different cars

I miss the culture of competitive golf where competitors call penalties on themselves.
 
I think something simple like a whistler wood be a good tool to use. Easy and gets a rough idea of legality. Then do teardowns if you really think you need to...

Stephen
 
Dave,

I have found that most folks with the "everyone is cheating, so I will too" approach are running mid pack. Have not run into a lot of very front runners that are cheating (on purpose). I have run into some that really believed that what they were doing was legal, but in the end it was not.

Heck when I first built my car, I thought nothing of replacing the steering rack bushings with stiffer material. I had heard that bushings were free. Well of course that was only in reference to suspension bushings, as I soon realized. It was a pain enough to change them with the right parts that I left it that way for a while, but once I became more competitive, I made a point to get in there and fix it. When you are winning you are under more scrutiny, and need to be sure that your stuff is as right as can be.

EDIT -
On the protest front. While I agree that our system can make people shy to enforce the rules, at the end of the day I see it as the best medicine for good, strong, legal competition. I have not had to ever write a protest, but I have encountered obviously illegal cars that were very fast. The first few times I got my butt whipped by them I was not fast enough myself to have a good feel for what was legitimately possible or not. However after seeing some illegal parts mentioned in classified ads by on racer that showed up on an entry list one weekend - I did my homework to figure out what the strong points for that car were, and how the weak points could be improved illegally. It was very strong in the wrong phase of a lap - acceleration - for what it was. I made sure tech knew before the event that the racers in our class would take action if the car ran with us, and then had a polite conversation with the guy at the track. He gave me a sad story about how he just wanted to get his races in to keep his license, and didn't want any trouble. I told him that was fine, but if he took the track in our class I was writing paper to tear his motor down, so maybe he should consider changing to a class that his car was legal for. In the end he changed to STU, where he was not 100% legal either, but he was the only car. That car proceeded to turn very competitive B times, with so-so driving all weekend.

It was hard to do in an area where honestly we really need to cultivate entries, but as I see it that will only happen if we can develop a culture of expected legality - which we are doing.
 
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You could also do the sat afternnoon, asshoolstroll.
This requires a 12 packof beer, and the front drivers of your class.
Method as follows. Walk to each car, Offer the driver a beer. remove valve cover, compare cam to known good value. Run a cranking compression test, compare to KGV. Peek into the plug hole. In the case of the VW, 8/5 to one and the 10/1, you can see the difference of the piston top.
Drink beer, Move to next car.
In My Exp, the new guys have the edgy parts. Some times the wrong engine. Be nice and explain why it matters to you. Dont be a dick.
This method is a lot easier than the paper method and may not chase off some offenders if done with the right intent and beer for the offending driver.
 
$25 and one sheet of paper.

Ok, now take a look at the newly added second line in my sig and tell me step by step how to verify the compliance of the cam you just dropped paper on without doing at least a partial tear down of the protested car.
 
The actual legality of cams is almost impossible with SCCA,IMHO. You would need a KGV for each car. And the cam centerline is a non tech item .
Just removing valve covers is enough for most. The non part # cams go away fast. IMHO.
 
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