vote for the best engine shop

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DoorDoctor

New member
I need some referals for a engine builder for my ITB Golf. The local machine shop doesn't care to take the time to do it right. 50 laps on new engine and rod bearing failure. Who's the best?
 
How much can you afford Steve?
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As far as engine builders, you are going to get 20 different shops from 20 different racers. Call, BSI, Shine, Techtonics and Bertils and see what they offer for the price. The biggest thing is that they have the experience to build a race motor.
That's what is going to ensure you are getting a reliable motor.
Since you are looking at getting a built motor, you might as well get a big 2.0l for the Rabbit track car.
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Let me know how the Rabbit does on the track on Monday.


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Ralf
#53 ITB Golf GT
MiDiv
 
BSI, BSI, BSI, i had them build my engine over the winter, wow! it was fast. Might be expensive but worth every penny. Would u like it cheap or would like it done right. Most machineshops dont even have the tools to do it right, (or in other words as percise) as BSI. I some will diagree, fine dont buy one of there engines but if u want to go fast........just my two cents
 
My vote would be for Shine Racing Service, I have had nothing but great experiences with them. More importantly, their reputation and depth of experience speaks for themselves.

I am curious as to who were the motor builders for those at the ARRC runoffs, and what order they finished in. Not sure (I may be wrong here....) but I believe Shine's motors, a couple, finished ahead of all the BSI cars (NOTHING against BSI, they have a great reputation and build great motors from what I have heard). So if any of the VW ARRC drivers want to divulge this info, that would be nice.

Alan
 
Last year a ran a motor that came with the car when i bought it. Its a rabbit GTI, i was as fast as any Shine golf at the ARRC in 2001, then of course i blew up 3 laps into the race. note that golf are suppose to be faster than rabbits, Now I have a BSI motor and first weekend out i was almost 2 sec. a lap fast than a was at the same track last year. Can u put 2 and 2 together? In a couple weeks at VIR ill get a better test at the SARRC/MARRS and let u know, if ur still interested.
 
Derek,

I see you ran a 1:51.348 during qualifying, NICE JOB!!! I am sorry to hear what happened in the race, tough break. I would actually be curious to see how the new BSI motor does against some of the other engine builders and your previous motor. Also, would you mind providing some "experience" info; is this your third year, been racing since you were a fetus kind of deal, just so that others and myself can understand what level of experience you are coming from. I ask this because an engine builder can give the best motor to the worst driver and they will can be slower than the best driver with the worst motor. I have ONE year of racing experience (2001 regional SCCA) so I am on the STEEP end of the learning curve, trying to absorb as much as possible, and my expertise is practically nil. Any info you can provide would be great.

Thanks for the response.

Alan
 
ya your right the experience thing definitely plays a part, i guess in ur terms "racing since a fetus" accurately describes it, but 2001 was first year of SCCA. But i state the rabbit vs. golfs thing because it is a known fact the golfs have more potential then rabbits. I think rabbits handle better, and the power is close, not as far off as some might think. My BSI opinion is one based on working with them the second half of last year, and how much faster I was because of that. Stus cars and motors are artwork, cosmetically and fuctionality. I dont say this because I have their name on the car, i say this because, well have u even seen one of the cars they have built? if not u need to! You cant really go on how well good a shop based on results because of different driver levels. just my opinion, im sure someone will chime in saying how i am wrong, but thats the way i see it....
 
I've had experience with SCCA compliant Techtonics, Shine, BSI, and a fourth who shall remain nameless. The first three were all very high-quality. The fourth no longer builds engines (otherwise, I'd remember their name to warn you all)!

Due to my own exuberance (especially while ice racing), I've also had occasion to have all of these engines apart.

Each of the builders has their own forte. For example, Shine and BSI are the best at heads, and Techtonics may have an edge on shortblocks. For solid-lifter engines, Shine has it all worked out. For hydraulics, BSI seems to have the edge. All IMHO!
 
For an ITC VW motor, I would say that BSI's motors make the most HP. There are several ITC Sciroccos running around the SEDIV w/ BSI motors and they are definitely the fastest on the straights. For the record, my dad and I built the motor in my (former) ITC Scirocco and while it was very good and reliable, the BSI cars definitely had an edge down the straights.

Mark Coffin
(2001 SARRC ITC Champion...the most HP doesn't *always* win!
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)
 
Ok, I will speak on this one - BSI. We talked to 2 different machine shops and when I gave the all the spec's that I wanted cut, added in the parts and my labor time to put things back together the price always ended up right where Stu's was. This is from shops that COULD DO what I wanted and they all had very little experience with VW stuff. Remember anyone can put a block in a Sunnen bore and hone machine (with no torque plate) and cut crooked cylinders (Just one example). Make sure you compare apples to apples.. In addition, when I go to redo the block next year I get the rebuild kit from Stu (competitive price for the parts again) and he knows everthing about my motor.

Now, you look at my ARRC times and go, "what the hell, he is clueless" I had a problem all season and it was not the mechanicals (or me I hope). I did find some problems in the winter (electrical) and hope that clears it up. My friend and team mate qualified 6th at the ARRC, had a stupid problem in the race - but our cars are identical. Our cars were on the Dyno a week before ARRC and I say my car was down on HP but Chris's curve was pretty.

In addition, if you don't want the hole thing start with the head, that's what we did. It put us in the top 10 sometimes and top 15 usually (at Mid-Ohio around 30 cars) and we worked on driving and handling. Again I ran a bunch of suspension calculations and had numbers and ideas of where to start, started calling shops and Stu knew everything I was talking about and could back it up.

Yes, I have the BSI banner on my car but I fund my driving (ask my wife). The one thing you get is experience as well as parts.
 
I just hade my engine rebuilt for my 325i. Total cost was $1310.00 which included all machine work to head and block allowed by the GCR, balance and blueprint, TotalSeal Rings, valvejob and head/manifolds port matching. I supplied the bearings and gaskets. My engine builder does all types of race engines, Dirt Late Models to Four Cylinder Import drag racers. I haven't had it at the track yet, but I've been breaking it in on the roads(I live in Po' Dunk, PA)and it runs great. If you would like a phone number, shoot me an email. [email protected]
 
Bertils and Interprep are the VW masters.
Certain shops listed in this thread over and over learned from these guys. Those certain shops will remain nameless to save face
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Bertils is pricey, Interprep is cheaper than most of the guys listed here. Check out the resume: www.InterprepTuning.com



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Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport Volkswagen Racing Equipment
 
Of the two Bildon mentions I also did check Interprep (plus the other two local guys) and he was at the same price also. It doesn't matter where someone learned the trade, as long as they do it well. In addition, we had to source all our parts - not that big a deal, but getting a package was easier.

And remember, you are just taking these things to spec and trying to hold very tight tollerances.

itbgti..
Racing is racing and BSI had good qualifying but a bad race day. Tuaty rolled it in turn 1 and Chris and I made a prep mistake, there were two cars (and drivers) that would have been ahead. Also remember that driver and handling play a big role.
 
itbgti..
Racing is racing and BSI had good qualifying but a bad race day. Tuaty rolled it in turn 1 and Chris and I made a prep mistake, there were two cars (and drivers) that would have been ahead. Also remember that driver and handling play a big role.


Could not agree more...that is why I posted originally the way I did, with some doubt, and asking for clarification. Didn't Chris also have a gearbox problem and was stuck in gear, and he still finished that well? If he did, that is pretty impresive. I am planning on making my first trip to the ARRC this coming Nov, and I look forward to meeting many of you, and hopefully learning a lot from all of you as well.

Alan
 
My teammate is Chris Wikle, not Chirs Albin. Albin did have a gear problem (the standard 5th gear shatter I believe) and Wikle had a prep/leaking radiator problem.

I don't know how many laps Albin ran with 4 gears, but the pack spreads out quick. I believe he had enough gap not to loose many positions. I think he runs close (if not the same) final drive as me and if he ran 4th as far as it could go (back straight, front, esses, and after turn 5) he really would not have been to far off my speed. Never give up....

I defintly was not trying to go against Shine, fact is I believe he does build good engines - I PERSONALLY just don't agree with his car setup. I also know he is a good person and the owner of the dyno we use is friends with him.

I did understand you with the caps usage in that you were not against BSI, your recomendation has the same merit as mine. This is a small business and I would say in all of this go with who you feel comfortable with and don't fly by the seat of your pants. I chose a shop that supported me in ALL aspects of my car and that had the same ideas as me. I have called Stu a couple of times with some hairbrained idea and usually get "Tried it, doesn't help"

Finally, I think I have only met a few people in this sport that I disliked - like 1 to 2 percent and they were usually disliked by the 98%... I still remember hearing this one name and car number being called to the Steward - boy did that bring a smile to my face. So, I also look forward to meeting folks, just look for the two black GTI's with white numbers and checker tape on the lights (one red/white the other black/white).
 
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