what does a new track need to be great
- Thread starter dickita15
- Start date
itracer
New member
I’ll start—
Good facilities for workers-- Without workers, we don't race.
Track layout:
1. Longer than Lime Rock (to allow decent car counts)
2. Safe runoff areas.
Large paddock space to accommodate all competitors and crew without stepping on each other.
Showers, showers, and more clean showers.
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Jason
ITB 17 (NER SCCA)
VW Scirocco
Good facilities for workers-- Without workers, we don't race.
Track layout:
1. Longer than Lime Rock (to allow decent car counts)
2. Safe runoff areas.
Large paddock space to accommodate all competitors and crew without stepping on each other.
Showers, showers, and more clean showers.
------------------
Jason
ITB 17 (NER SCCA)
VW Scirocco
dyoungre
New member
I can't believe I'm saying this, as it is a huge detriment to my car, but: altitude variation, and good safe runoff. Track character comes in following the terrain.
Beyond that, a place to warm up (hey, if we're dreaming, a big log cabin-like meeting hall, with a fireplace, and stadium seating overlooking the track ...)
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Dave Youngren
NER ITA RX7 #61
Beyond that, a place to warm up (hey, if we're dreaming, a big log cabin-like meeting hall, with a fireplace, and stadium seating overlooking the track ...)
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Dave Youngren
NER ITA RX7 #61
T
Tom Blaney
Guest
How about a race track that actually cares as much about you as your wallet. Or a race track that knows how important it is to promote the races so when we look up in the grandstands there is something there other than bird poop.
Or any race track that doesn't look, act, smell or emulate Nelson Ledges...
Tom Blaney
I hope we aren't dreaming.
Whatever you (we) do please don't build a go-cart track. Won't be worth the time and money. If we are going to build a track I hope it is one that is fun. Not a bunch of low speed turns.
Track layout(#2 reason I don't like NHIS)
Elavation changes
Runoff (#1 reason I don't like NHIS)
I'm not dreaming so...
I could careless about:
Showers
Power
Buildings
As it is now I don't use any of those amenities. Two days without a shower is nothing. I guess I'm just use to the Army life. Yes I shower everyday
now that I'm not in the Army anymore.
Bring a nice cheap camp shower. $6.99 http://www.campingworld.com/browse/skus/in...18&skunum=23464
Bring a converter or generator.
You can always stay at a motel.
Seriously I'm not trying to be an ass, but I hope people can over look Track ClubMed for a well laid out close road track.
Where is the site I'll head up now and start clearing.
[This message has been edited by 0100 (edited November 18, 2004).]
Whatever you (we) do please don't build a go-cart track. Won't be worth the time and money. If we are going to build a track I hope it is one that is fun. Not a bunch of low speed turns.
Track layout(#2 reason I don't like NHIS)
Elavation changes
Runoff (#1 reason I don't like NHIS)
I'm not dreaming so...
I could careless about:
Showers
Power
Buildings
As it is now I don't use any of those amenities. Two days without a shower is nothing. I guess I'm just use to the Army life. Yes I shower everyday
Bring a nice cheap camp shower. $6.99 http://www.campingworld.com/browse/skus/in...18&skunum=23464
Bring a converter or generator.
You can always stay at a motel.
Seriously I'm not trying to be an ass, but I hope people can over look Track ClubMed for a well laid out close road track.
Where is the site I'll head up now and start clearing.
[This message has been edited by 0100 (edited November 18, 2004).]
Scott Koschwitz
New member
What are all these suggestions for creature comforts? You guys gettin' old? ;-)
My overarching comment agrees with what Dave Youngren said: build a track that follows the natural terrain (so long as it's not as flat as a billiard table). Tracks that follow the natural terrain seem to be the best tracks.
My wish list:
1) At least 2.5 miles
2) 40' wide
3) Designed with plenty of passing areas
4) Long front straight
5) At least one 2nd gear corner
6) Capable of being run in either a different configuration (like WGI Long and Short Courses) or both clockwise and counterclockwise
7) Lots of runoff room
My overarching comment agrees with what Dave Youngren said: build a track that follows the natural terrain (so long as it's not as flat as a billiard table). Tracks that follow the natural terrain seem to be the best tracks.
My wish list:
1) At least 2.5 miles
2) 40' wide
3) Designed with plenty of passing areas
4) Long front straight
5) At least one 2nd gear corner
6) Capable of being run in either a different configuration (like WGI Long and Short Courses) or both clockwise and counterclockwise
7) Lots of runoff room
I think I'm going to write this same list to Santa this year. It's pretty much what I was looking for. At least one long straight for the HP cars, and some good turns for the handling cars. Make it a good track for both and they will come.
Can I just add that the 2nd gear turn not be at the end of the fastest part of the track?
Jeremy
RSTPerformance
New member
Make the second gear turn the start of the fastest part of the track, and make the end of the fastest part a 3rd gear turn. inbetween should be a mixture of 4th and 3rd gear turns wiht elevation changes and every track needs to have a "photo" turn or signature turn. NHIS doesn't have much of one, but Road Atlanta's esses or Laguna Secca's "corkscrew" Actually I guess if NHIS had one it would probably be the use of Bryar's old turn 6 (still turn 6 at NHIS).
Raymond
Raymond
What does a track need to be considered "great"? One need look no further than Virginia International Raceway or Barber Motorsports Park. Those are truly first-class facilities. However, if we're talking about a local club track, I think we can certainly settle for a lot less.
I'm also not one to wax poetic about creature comforts. I'm OK with Porta-Potties for two days, and I rarely use the track showers.
In a club facility I'm looking for - first and foremost - a well-laid out track with a good surface and plenty of runoff. Without that, nothing else matters.
I also don't give two shakes about spectator accomodations, because we rarely get enough spectators to make it worthwhile. Plus, a club track will have to be built in the boonies, making it very unlikely that it will attract a crowd.
The paddock area must be clean, flat, and dry. Paved if at all possible. There must be sufficient and convenient off-paddock trailer parking space so folks will be encouraged to move their open-deck trailers out of the way.
Flat concrete setup pads that are clearly marked as such so they won't be imstaken for the "I got here first" paddock spaces.
There should be a meeting club house and classrom, primarily for driver's meetings and class sessions for HPDE events. The way to pay for this track is via club racing (and not just SCCA), a driving school, open-track testing sessions, and various HPDE groups. Do it right and the facility will be rented every usable day of the year.
A 2- or 4-car tech barn so that Honda engine disassemblies can happen in good conditions and relative privacy.
Trees/shade interspersed throughout the paddock area. Keep this in mind before we start dozing all the vegetation.
Free.
I'm also not one to wax poetic about creature comforts. I'm OK with Porta-Potties for two days, and I rarely use the track showers.
In a club facility I'm looking for - first and foremost - a well-laid out track with a good surface and plenty of runoff. Without that, nothing else matters.
I also don't give two shakes about spectator accomodations, because we rarely get enough spectators to make it worthwhile. Plus, a club track will have to be built in the boonies, making it very unlikely that it will attract a crowd.
The paddock area must be clean, flat, and dry. Paved if at all possible. There must be sufficient and convenient off-paddock trailer parking space so folks will be encouraged to move their open-deck trailers out of the way.
Flat concrete setup pads that are clearly marked as such so they won't be imstaken for the "I got here first" paddock spaces.
There should be a meeting club house and classrom, primarily for driver's meetings and class sessions for HPDE events. The way to pay for this track is via club racing (and not just SCCA), a driving school, open-track testing sessions, and various HPDE groups. Do it right and the facility will be rented every usable day of the year.
A 2- or 4-car tech barn so that Honda engine disassemblies can happen in good conditions and relative privacy.
Trees/shade interspersed throughout the paddock area. Keep this in mind before we start dozing all the vegetation.
Free.
Somebody asked Mario Andretti what made a race track great. Don't know where I read it, but somebody here must have seen it, too. He ticked off a list, and it didn't include espresso machines in the showers and drive-thru registration windows...but it did include 'elevation-change' and 'no constant-radius corners'. Somebody can chime in with the rest of the list, if they can find it.
Complain all you want about Nelson Ledges...but for what ONE DAY of racing at Lime Rock will cost next season, you can rent Nelson for almost THREE WEEKENDS. Probably the most "SCCA-friendly" track management (Scott & Kerry) in the USA (although maybe Bill Scott comes in 2nd...?)The Nelson-rats will all be happily racing, while everyone east of the Hudson will be whining about a lack of dates at that crappy little go-kart track in Connecticut.
Oh my...did I just say that ?
Complain all you want about Nelson Ledges...but for what ONE DAY of racing at Lime Rock will cost next season, you can rent Nelson for almost THREE WEEKENDS. Probably the most "SCCA-friendly" track management (Scott & Kerry) in the USA (although maybe Bill Scott comes in 2nd...?)The Nelson-rats will all be happily racing, while everyone east of the Hudson will be whining about a lack of dates at that crappy little go-kart track in Connecticut.
Oh my...did I just say that ?
jcmotorsports
New member
a great track. hmmmm! i'd have to say elevation changes with blind apexes, stellar facilities(tower, rest rooms, paved paddock, etc.). i guess what i am looking for is barber motorsports park!
john costello
its rx7 #87
john costello
its rx7 #87
benspeed
New member
OK - sounds like it's time I call some of my investment buddies and rustle up some $$.
The track is what I care about most:
-2.5 miles
-safe runoffs-no barriers
-wide passing areas
-no constant radius turns
-good curbing
-elevation changes
-second gear turn leading to straight
-two good long straightaways
-second gear at end of straight
-long high speed sweeper at end of straight
-excellent braking markers
-no armaco-only sandtraps and safer barriers
-Nice big grid
The paddock is what I care about second:
-paved-no dirt or grass
-plenty of setup pads that are marked as "paddock here and suffer the wrath of all"
-Power - ok not that important
Ammenities
-Clean bathrooms and showers
-Tech barn
-Classroom
-seating
-food
Most important - owned by our club and managed by reasonable people!
Just put in the track and a massive paddock - I'll poop in the woods!
The track is what I care about most:
-2.5 miles
-safe runoffs-no barriers
-wide passing areas
-no constant radius turns
-good curbing
-elevation changes
-second gear turn leading to straight
-two good long straightaways
-second gear at end of straight
-long high speed sweeper at end of straight
-excellent braking markers
-no armaco-only sandtraps and safer barriers
-Nice big grid
The paddock is what I care about second:
-paved-no dirt or grass
-plenty of setup pads that are marked as "paddock here and suffer the wrath of all"
-Power - ok not that important
Ammenities
-Clean bathrooms and showers
-Tech barn
-Classroom
-seating
-food
Most important - owned by our club and managed by reasonable people!
Just put in the track and a massive paddock - I'll poop in the woods!
lateapex911
Super Moderator
Ben...You DO need to contact them. Dicks a creative guy...I am sure we can find a way to have them lapping their Ferraris with us as instructors when ever they please!
Money will be a BIG issue.
It WILL cost each member of the region something..and it WILL be a risk.
Still nothing great is ever acheived without some risk....
That said....
I am not a fan of pooping in the woods...we need some basic facilities ....if only for our wives and girlfirends.
(What KILLS me about LRP is the showers...they can't find $300 bucks to make those things perfectly acceptable?? C'mon...!)
The thing I LOVE about Lime Rock is the natural circuit nature of the place. It has character. And it it the best place to watch a race...but they could do even better with a little earthmoving...
Yes, a long straight, but serious braking is important at the end...maybe downhill and off camber..like T1 at the Glen...and a DIFFICULT entry onto it will ensure that talent wins races, not just big torque and high HP.
So, the bsics: amplitheater layout, natural characteristics, and a challenging layout of 2 miles is a good start. Financially, splitting into two circuits it is smart for rental flexibility, if the region sees that in the business plan. Along with the required control and timing tower, and basic facilities.
Then...after a year or two, paddock improvements, and if it's making money, other items like a lodge (how cool!) could be added.
As a club, we have members from all walks of life. Each one needs to pitch in his or her talents where they might apply. How great would it be if we had a paving contractor as a member?
oh yea...one more thing...NO gravel traps 1 foot from the edge of the track! Those things do more harm than good in a lot of cases and screw the schedule royally.
It should be : Track, grass, more grass, or, in areas where space is not available, track, grass, then pavement, and finally bundled and strapped tires. Pavement does a pretty good job of slowing spinning cars, without them skipping over the top, then catching and rolling into the wall as so often happens with gravel.
------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited November 18, 2004).]
[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited November 18, 2004).]
Money will be a BIG issue.
It WILL cost each member of the region something..and it WILL be a risk.
Still nothing great is ever acheived without some risk....
That said....
I am not a fan of pooping in the woods...we need some basic facilities ....if only for our wives and girlfirends.
(What KILLS me about LRP is the showers...they can't find $300 bucks to make those things perfectly acceptable?? C'mon...!)
The thing I LOVE about Lime Rock is the natural circuit nature of the place. It has character. And it it the best place to watch a race...but they could do even better with a little earthmoving...
Yes, a long straight, but serious braking is important at the end...maybe downhill and off camber..like T1 at the Glen...and a DIFFICULT entry onto it will ensure that talent wins races, not just big torque and high HP.
So, the bsics: amplitheater layout, natural characteristics, and a challenging layout of 2 miles is a good start. Financially, splitting into two circuits it is smart for rental flexibility, if the region sees that in the business plan. Along with the required control and timing tower, and basic facilities.
Then...after a year or two, paddock improvements, and if it's making money, other items like a lodge (how cool!) could be added.
As a club, we have members from all walks of life. Each one needs to pitch in his or her talents where they might apply. How great would it be if we had a paving contractor as a member?
oh yea...one more thing...NO gravel traps 1 foot from the edge of the track! Those things do more harm than good in a lot of cases and screw the schedule royally.
It should be : Track, grass, more grass, or, in areas where space is not available, track, grass, then pavement, and finally bundled and strapped tires. Pavement does a pretty good job of slowing spinning cars, without them skipping over the top, then catching and rolling into the wall as so often happens with gravel.
------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited November 18, 2004).]
[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited November 18, 2004).]
Vantage #51
New member
Just for the record,about 98% of the items on the wish lists are covered by VIR,if you have never been,it is worth the tow ,no matter how far away you might live.
We are 22 hours, and would go back next weekend if they were racing!
Their motto"Fast,Fun and world class" is no exaggeration.
First facility that we felt like "customers" .
We are 22 hours, and would go back next weekend if they were racing!
Their motto"Fast,Fun and world class" is no exaggeration.
First facility that we felt like "customers" .
JLawton
New member
Track layout and run off are 1# & #2 in my book. I'll even live with a dirt paddock and porta potties. I think a large class room is also important.
I like the idea of starting with the bare essentials and adding as the track becomes profitable (??) (keeping initial costs low) There are enough clubs in the area that would love to add dates and run at a new facility. A little competition for Lime Rock would help bring those costs down as well............
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Jeff L
#74 ITB GTi
I like the idea of starting with the bare essentials and adding as the track becomes profitable (??) (keeping initial costs low) There are enough clubs in the area that would love to add dates and run at a new facility. A little competition for Lime Rock would help bring those costs down as well............
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Jeff L
#74 ITB GTi
