What length Springs?

J

jimbbski

New member
I'm new to VW's but have been reading about VW car set up as various web sites. It seems that the prevailing thought is to run stiffer springs in the rear then in the front.
What i want to know is what length coil over springs do you use? I have some 8 inch & 9 inch, as well as a set of 10 inch. The rates on most of these are lower then what others have mentioned when giving their spring rates. What hasn't been mentioned is what length coil over spring to use. 8 inch in the front is good but I can see how I could also use a 10 inch.

Just looking for some first hand experience so that I can then start looking for some springs.
 
you can run 8-10 in the back, but front 6 or 7 is the best.... If you use a GC camber plate it adds an inch... 8inch are ok if you run the car high, but the tire and the spring seat are very close....Ya need -3,3.5 camber, with out camber plates the tire will hit the strut...camber plates let you go + camber at the knuckle, to get the wheel away from the strut, and the go - camber with the camber plate....I have 8s on my scirocco, but my rabbit has 6s and I like the extra clearance... If you end up using the camber/knuckle adjustment to get the wheel away form the strut you end up maxing out the camber plate, then you have to adjust it @ knuckle....Its a pain in the ass...defeating the purpose of a camber plate........
We made 4 sets of weld-in camber plates....better than the BSIs, not as nice as Ground Control....

Every one has a diffrent openion.......I like front sway bars! I am the only one???....And 550lb front 400lb rear....I used a stock rear 16V sway bar in my rabbit, and love it!
 
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I am in the middle of building a set of caster/camber plates. I intend to cut the strut opening bigger to install these. I can make then adjustable for caster or camber, but not both.
If I follow your suggestion then I set them up for camber. I have camber adjustment bolts at the knucle/strut mount which I should set for positive camber for tire to strut/spring clearence and then get the required neg. camber at the upper strut mount camber plate. Makes sense.

So my question now is: Then how do you adjust caster?
 
With my rabbit, I measured 1.35 inches from the inside of the strut tower, fire wall side, to get the centerline of the strut location.....that gives you the maximum caster.... caster is not adjustable,it doesn't need to be..... camber we can get about 7deg with the camber plates we made....On the scirocco, the strut tower is goofy, not connected to the fender, there is less room for the strut than a rabbit....
The best thing we did was spherical bearings in the control arms.....Handles like butter! No rubber, except for the rear axle...
 
P.S. "Addition or removal of material is allowed" The way I read it, I could raise the camber plate....??????like an inch.....Witch allows you to lower the car and still have suspension travel.....You could get away with murder in ITA....I haven't seen a FWD car beat a miata in IT trim......Our Scirocco was dooing 1:48-49s@ MAM with Hoosiers, welded diff, WAY set up, before it became a rental car...SMs were dooing 1:43-44s
 
You should maybe try less offset wheels to get the tire away from the strut. I use the BMW 320 wheels set, for 13s. 13 are faster if legal, the car is lower,better gear etc. If you take all of the camber at the top strut mount you may run into jamming the axles into the trans and breaking the CV, quite often. Tip the strut in and the axle has less play. Zero play =s dead axles . A good balance is to take about 2*, at the knuckle and 1in or less, at the top. Try to keep at least 1/2 in tire clearance to the strut. It may still rub some at 1/2 in.
When you get all done setting camber, untorque the axle nut about 8 turns. Push/tap, the axle in at least 1/4 in. If you hit bottom at less than 1/4 in ,you may have axle breakage problems, IMHO.
If you can buy wheels, stick them out a little more than stock. Try to match the tire to the wheel lip a little for better air, and if the track is wider, the car will transfer less weight.
If you get too far out, you may have to add some spring rate to get the same wheel rate. The VW wheel rate is about 96%( of spring rate), stock and it goes down a little ,as the tire center gets further outboard. Not much,but maybe down to 90% leverage factor.
Keep the offset about stock for a welded car!! Add only 15mm!!.
I use 7 in coils all around the car. This puts the adjuster sleeve just over the tire and about 1.5 in under the strut nut. I cant get 6 in to work on my car, You will need a pretty big spacer at the top to get the adjuster nut in a range.
8 are too long, for my cars.
7In are lighter than 8in, by only a little. You can set a 4in adjuster sleeve right on the stock lower perch. May have to trim it .5 in . Just trim off the perch if you want to. Doing this, allows an easy repair with junk yard parts,in a pinch.
 
Mike is pretty much right on here. Although I do run et 13 and spacers on the front with a welded diff and have not had issues.

You don't have the 13" wheel option with the 16v Scirocco, only 14 or 15.
 
Lael Cleland said:
P.S. "Addition or removal of material is allowed" The way I read it, I could raise the camber plate....??????like an inch.....Witch allows you to lower the car and still have suspension travel.....You could get away with murder in ITA....I haven't seen a FWD car beat a miata in IT trim......Our Scirocco was dooing 1:48-49s@ MAM with Hoosiers, welded diff, WAY set up, before it became a rental car...SMs were dooing 1:43-44s
Click to expand...

These camber plates and not welded up yet and I do have some option on their installed height. I will have to deternine just how high I can mount them and still not hit the hood!

i will do most of my racing with MCSCC and almost 100% of the Miata's there run under the SM rules set so they can run 2 races per weekend. A couple of years ago there was a competive ITA Scriocco running until it got distroyed in a Miata sandwitch.
The VW is not a race winner, that much I know, but the car was free, parts are plentyful, other then windshields, and some body parts, and it's not a Miata!

IT allows me to try things, make some of my own parts, like my camber plates, where SM has a very tight rule set and where you buy your engine can determine if you win or not.

It's in a class that's afordable, compared to some other classes, and there are enough ITA cars (Groups can run to 20+ cars.) in MCSCC that I will never be out there by my self.
 
OH YA the windshields! I spent close to a grand one summer on 3 windshields....I would highly recommend using weather stripping and 5 hold downs...We had a glass company install 2nd to last new shield in existence and he broke it.......the seal is not user friendly.......so we got the last PPG one in the country.....I ran the car with NASA, who allowed Lexan, made a lexan one, now we use it for a protective cover.....
 
The Mk 1 axles are shorter..
Wheels;I have two E 30 BMWs. The 91 has 14x6x30et( 318IS)
The 84 has 14x6x35et (318)
The E21 has 13x5.5 x18et (77 320i)
Our Miata has 15x7 by38et.
Stock 14in VW is usually 14x6x38et. ( 85 Mk 2 and earlyMk 3)
Less et # equals the wheel further away from center of the car.
BMW wheels have been my choice for 15years. Thanks John....
 
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