OK, I really don't have much time to race recently, so I tend to just show up and go racing. I don't have big budget for trying to run at the front so I guess I'm not really much affected by the various changes that shuffle the deck slightly at the front of the field... I read this forum sometimes but I don't have much patience for really long threads of minutiae. Why is it that everyone is so upset and people are quitting the ITAC? I think Greg and Kirk know I'm not some crackpot, just wondering if someone can encapsulate the big issues for me (and others that I am sure are in the same boat...) Thanks!
Why is the sky falling?
- Thread starter evanwebb
- Start date
lateapex911
Super Moderator
Sky isn't falling. IT will be fine. Lot's of great work has been done, and the racing will be great for some time to come.
I can't tell you why the others resigned. The issues are complex, so you should spend the time reading.
I resigned because I felt that my vision and desire to create the IT world that the members wanted ...and had been largely done...was no longer possible, due to the contrasting positions of myself and the CRB.
Simply put, the Process which has been used for about 5 years now, fell out of favor with them. they feel there are better ways to class cars, and I feel those methods sacrifice principals that members hold as first principal issues.
It's a difference of opinion, but it was obvious that my opinion wasn't wanted, and that the CRb would prefer that I leave.
Others may have different reasons. I have huge respect for the integrity of Andy, Scott and Kirk, (who have all left in the past two or three months) and I'd like to think my actions are always reasonable. But it's hard for me not to come to the conclusion that a sea change occurred for FOUR sharp guys to leave in such a short timeframe.
However, two guys who I also respect highly post here who are still plugging away and fighting the good fight, as it were, and i know that they both are dedicated serving the members. They deserve our help whenever possible.
I can't tell you why the others resigned. The issues are complex, so you should spend the time reading.
I resigned because I felt that my vision and desire to create the IT world that the members wanted ...and had been largely done...was no longer possible, due to the contrasting positions of myself and the CRB.
Simply put, the Process which has been used for about 5 years now, fell out of favor with them. they feel there are better ways to class cars, and I feel those methods sacrifice principals that members hold as first principal issues.
It's a difference of opinion, but it was obvious that my opinion wasn't wanted, and that the CRb would prefer that I leave.
Others may have different reasons. I have huge respect for the integrity of Andy, Scott and Kirk, (who have all left in the past two or three months) and I'd like to think my actions are always reasonable. But it's hard for me not to come to the conclusion that a sea change occurred for FOUR sharp guys to leave in such a short timeframe.
However, two guys who I also respect highly post here who are still plugging away and fighting the good fight, as it were, and i know that they both are dedicated serving the members. They deserve our help whenever possible.
gran racing
Super Moderator
Evan,
It's not so much the sky is falling, but rather we were nearly approaching the promise land and the captins decided that they'd rather not land the ship even though we only had yards to go. There's a lot to it, but an extremely high level summary from my perspective:
Cars are not classed in a consistant manner. One car that is identical to another other than the make and model could easily have different weights (100 lbs +). This is recognized but nothing will come of it now.
When a person asks how people arrived at a classification, well, who knows.
Horrible communication between the boards and leadership; AND the membership. The ITAC IMO was doing a fantastic job actually communicating with members. YOU could actually get answers to questions from the ITAC, and they'd be more than willing to speak with you about any concerns or questions.
They were in the trenches actively learning what WE IT drivers wanted, and used that information to base many of their decisions. We had guys going to events (heck, Jake flew from CT to the ARRC with his primary motivation being listening and observing IT at the big event). It was truly about what the membership wanted and not some elite group of guys making decisions in some closed room.
Lack of documentation. Things were close to the point where an actual classification process would be published and during the past several years one could see consistancy in how cars were classed.
The biggest loss is a fantastic group of guys devoted to truly making IT an even better category and actually serving membership. A true sense of trust was built (again, IMO) between IT racers and the ITAC. I have little trust in the CRB and maybe that's just due to a lack of communication.
Again, there's more to it but that's some of the gist.
It's not so much the sky is falling, but rather we were nearly approaching the promise land and the captins decided that they'd rather not land the ship even though we only had yards to go. There's a lot to it, but an extremely high level summary from my perspective:
Cars are not classed in a consistant manner. One car that is identical to another other than the make and model could easily have different weights (100 lbs +). This is recognized but nothing will come of it now.
When a person asks how people arrived at a classification, well, who knows.
Horrible communication between the boards and leadership; AND the membership. The ITAC IMO was doing a fantastic job actually communicating with members. YOU could actually get answers to questions from the ITAC, and they'd be more than willing to speak with you about any concerns or questions.
They were in the trenches actively learning what WE IT drivers wanted, and used that information to base many of their decisions. We had guys going to events (heck, Jake flew from CT to the ARRC with his primary motivation being listening and observing IT at the big event). It was truly about what the membership wanted and not some elite group of guys making decisions in some closed room.
Lack of documentation. Things were close to the point where an actual classification process would be published and during the past several years one could see consistancy in how cars were classed.
The biggest loss is a fantastic group of guys devoted to truly making IT an even better category and actually serving membership. A true sense of trust was built (again, IMO) between IT racers and the ITAC. I have little trust in the CRB and maybe that's just due to a lack of communication.
Again, there's more to it but that's some of the gist.
Just as in in politics, discourse is healthy and when folks don't get to be heard, they tend to shy away from further involvement to change things.
Any opinion on a subject is better than none and sometimes people even learn from facts that are different than their own viewpoint.
It's a sad day when we lose these guys who have represented us so well for so long.
Any opinion on a subject is better than none and sometimes people even learn from facts that are different than their own viewpoint.
It's a sad day when we lose these guys who have represented us so well for so long.
jumbojimbo
New member
I guess the part I can't figure out is what the CRB really wants. And how their current actions can be used to determine it.
It seems the consensus that CRB wants to take the IT national. But I don't see how the "process" interferes with this. If the goal is to eventually mess with car weights with trophy weight then wouldn't it be simplier to use the process and have a trophy add/sub in the process? Problem solved?
Otherwise you have to assume the CRB wants to take IT national and purposely create an unfair weighting system.
Right now, when the CRB rejects the "process", it appears they are supporting the status quo (for good or bad) more than anything else. For people like me that drive old race cars in backwater classes, nothing much changes, so far.
So while I understand everyone's frustration with the lack of feedback from the CRB and the feeling the CRB is not doing what the majority want, I don't see how OPPOSING large numbers of weight changes is necessarily a forerunner to a big change.
I suppose you could say that opposing this very reasonable change means that there is some other change in store. And you could say that the continued lack of communication means that they must be on the verge of doing something we don't like.
But you could also argue that poor communication is an accident, not a strategy. Just because someone acts like an idiot doesn't mean they are genius at acting like an idiot. I'm just having trouble aligning the actions of the CRB with anything other than "if we don't change anything we can't mess it up". I know, I know, people will tell me to wait and see and not complain when we all get f'd.
I'm not saying we shouldn't complain. I just don't see where the CRB actions make sense no matter how you look at it, so why assume there is some brilliant and evil master plan instead of just plain incompetence?
I called them incompetent idiots several times, if 3G Honda Civics get #100 of weight added, I'll be jumping on the CRB bashing bandwagon.
It seems the consensus that CRB wants to take the IT national. But I don't see how the "process" interferes with this. If the goal is to eventually mess with car weights with trophy weight then wouldn't it be simplier to use the process and have a trophy add/sub in the process? Problem solved?
Otherwise you have to assume the CRB wants to take IT national and purposely create an unfair weighting system.
Right now, when the CRB rejects the "process", it appears they are supporting the status quo (for good or bad) more than anything else. For people like me that drive old race cars in backwater classes, nothing much changes, so far.
So while I understand everyone's frustration with the lack of feedback from the CRB and the feeling the CRB is not doing what the majority want, I don't see how OPPOSING large numbers of weight changes is necessarily a forerunner to a big change.
I suppose you could say that opposing this very reasonable change means that there is some other change in store. And you could say that the continued lack of communication means that they must be on the verge of doing something we don't like.
But you could also argue that poor communication is an accident, not a strategy. Just because someone acts like an idiot doesn't mean they are genius at acting like an idiot. I'm just having trouble aligning the actions of the CRB with anything other than "if we don't change anything we can't mess it up". I know, I know, people will tell me to wait and see and not complain when we all get f'd.
I'm not saying we shouldn't complain. I just don't see where the CRB actions make sense no matter how you look at it, so why assume there is some brilliant and evil master plan instead of just plain incompetence?
I called them incompetent idiots several times, if 3G Honda Civics get #100 of weight added, I'll be jumping on the CRB bashing bandwagon.