Back to the ITR and the V8s vs. the M3.........
I guess I am having a hard time understanding how a M3 is bad for the class but a v8 mustang or camaro is good for the class. Both have insaine Hp potential in IT trim. True, the v8s are the lower HP versions with gobs of torque, but it only takes bolt ons to make them breath. So the weight would still need to be close to 3500# to make them fit. Is this any better other than it might bring some people into the class? If someone can explain this to me I would very much appreciate it, because up to now, I cannot see how in the world it makes sense.
2. No to IT going National (hooray!), yes to finding ways for IT cars to migrate to limited prep production (yeah right! too funny).
i think the M3 makes more power stock than the dumpy V8 iterations that are being considered, AND they gain more from IT builds than their domestic counterparts, AND the M3 has better brakes, etc.
Back to the ITR and the V8s vs. the M3.........
I guess I am having a hard time understanding how a M3 is bad for the class but a v8 mustang or camaro is good for the class. Both have insaine Hp potential in IT trim. True, the v8s are the lower HP versions with gobs of torque, but it only takes bolt ons to make them breath. So the weight would still need to be close to 3500# to make them fit. Is this any better other than it might bring some people into the class? If someone can explain this to me I would very much appreciate it, because up to now, I cannot see how in the world it makes sense.
Jake, don't you know that all BMW drivers both in ITS & now in ITR ALL HAVE JUNKYARD ENGINES and that's the turth!Some of the letters we got from guys winning in the E36s with junkyard motors defending their builds was hilarious)
There has been much concern over the power potential of the V8 cars submitted for ITR. The AS adhoc was polled along with at least 2 prolific small-block Chevy builders - each were given the limits of the rules and each confirmed that 'process power' was all that could be reasonably expected. AS guys have to remember that they get cams, intake manifolds, uprated carbs, different heads in some cases, etc. Without this stuff, it's just another handicapped pump like we all run (stock TB, intake manifold, cams, stock weight pistons...).
A 215hp V8 at 25% increase is about 269 crank hp. A 240hp E36M3 at 30% increase is over 310hp.
The issue at hand is how to account for 300ft/lbs of torque on these V8's. The proposal in hand suggests a +100lb adder. The debate rages on as to that 100lbs in terms of effectiveness as we have nothing with that kind of torque potential on the books now to draw conclusions from IIRC.
Interesting, but I've not heard a single ITR guy complain about the 2980 weight being too low........
Thank you Andy for adding the main point of my concern. TORQUE. We roadrace and torque means a hell of a lot, I think the RX8 folks would agree, its not just HP numbers. You have to account for torque numbers too low or high. 300 lbs of torque better add a lot more than 100lbs. Most of V8s being considered are in the low 200s around 215hp, from a least a header, exhuast and open intake, you are going to gain a ton. Thats not even considering IT prep, which we all know the manufacturing tolerances were/are way more crude than a bmw from the factory. I know, I know I am not a AS engine builder, but 260hp and 300tq better make for one heavy ITR car.
P.S. If anyone in the world has a dyno graphs from a 95M3 making 310 hp in IT trim, I would do unmentionable, questionable things to see it.![]()
RX8 has been proven to be about 8% in full IT build with Motec M600 and 4 years of tuning. 10% would be safe and can be backed up by just about any reputable tuner in the country.
..... but 260hp and 300tq better make for one heavy ITR car.
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'Cuz you know they handle like Miatas and stop like ALMS cars...
...just sayin'
(and there are other cars with great power, great tq, that handle AND brake, and weigh 3250....the 300ZX)
P.S. If anyone in the world has a dyno graphs from a 95M3 making 310 hp in IT trim, I would do unmentionable, questionable things to see it.![]()
Grafton,You're contradicting your own data. You can either claim low stock hp, or low gains, but not both.
The dyno sheets I saw showed 14% gain after only intake and exhaust work. There should be plenty more in the ECU.
r, but 260hp and 300tq better make for one heavy ITR car.
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