fiat124girl
New member
So will Jude and I. That first race at Memphis is one of my favorites of the year and we wouldn't miss it for the world.
07 MiDiv Schedule
- Thread starter tnord
- Start date
would any of my points become valid if i moved to arkansas?
well i described previously why i think St. Louis should be removed as the site for the bonus race. and i don't appreciate you accusing me of being motivated by only my own self interests. you're fighting for memphis and st louis pretty hard, and look where you live. i could make the same accusation, but i won't.
i'm aware of this. i use the term division to describe the aggregate financial health of all the regions operating under it. as has been acknowledged by multiple people, things such as back to back events hurt more than a specific region. at the same time, even though the runoffs are ONLY at topeka, it has helped our entire division (or should i say every region in the division? whatever.) via increased entries at pretty much every event. regions should be working together, not against one another.
whatever.....i'm done with this and back to trying to figure out how to find HP so maybe i have anything resembling a chance at the bonus race, if i even go.
FWIW - first national at HPT in 06 had 278 drivers take the green.
well i described previously why i think St. Louis should be removed as the site for the bonus race. and i don't appreciate you accusing me of being motivated by only my own self interests. you're fighting for memphis and st louis pretty hard, and look where you live. i could make the same accusation, but i won't.
i'm aware of this. i use the term division to describe the aggregate financial health of all the regions operating under it. as has been acknowledged by multiple people, things such as back to back events hurt more than a specific region. at the same time, even though the runoffs are ONLY at topeka, it has helped our entire division (or should i say every region in the division? whatever.) via increased entries at pretty much every event. regions should be working together, not against one another.
whatever.....i'm done with this and back to trying to figure out how to find HP so maybe i have anything resembling a chance at the bonus race, if i even go.
FWIW - first national at HPT in 06 had 278 drivers take the green.
Here are a few thoughts and questions that came to my mind as I read through the previous posts:
* Bill is right - the scheduling process is ugly. Everyone should, at the very least, attend the Midiv Convention to see the end of the process....but everyone also should know that there's a ton of work that happens before that meeting.
* To the issue of the MAM race the weekend before Memphis: MVRG/MAM was originally scheduled for April 28/29. MVRG swapped weekends with St. Louis because Gateway wasn't available on May 19/20. Yes, St. Louis was tentatively scheduled for a Regional/National at Gateway on the weekend that MAM is now scheduled, the weekend before Memphis. (And no, there were no other dates in that timeframe available at MAM.)
* I agree, there are too many events. But, as noted, no one wants to (or can afford to) give up their dates. MVRG, for example, relies on two successful Regional/National weekends to be able to pay the bills for the Driver's School weekend the same year. Dropping one of those successful weekends may put the entire SCCA racing program at MAM in jeopardy, as the losses from one DS weekend could easily eat all of the profits of a single Regional/National weekend, particularly if THAT weekend were poorly attended for some reason.
* The "Must have a school" item that Travis mentioned is a "rule" that has frequently been referred to during the scheduling meetings, but can't be found in writing. That "rule" is that any track holding a National event MUST hold a Driver's School. The Exec Committee is working on a rotation schedule recommendation that would only REQUIRE a track/race group to hold a driver's school every other year, which will help the point above. (They would, of course, be allowed to hold one every year....)
* What would everyone here say if there were two, and ONLY two, SCCA weekends at any given track, period? How about two "regular" racing weekends, plus the "Every Other Year/Optional" driver's school weekend?
* Before we move too far down the concept of split regional/national weekends, I need to point out that the same group of workers would need to support all of the races. Adding additional weekends by splitting regional and national racing may further exacerbate the already critical worker issue.
* National racing participation was at record high levels last year (even taking Heartland Park out of the equation); meanwhile, regional racing participation was at record low levels. Rocky's theory attributes this drop in regional racing to the high price of gasoline: as regional racers are "typically" lower-budget racers, the additional cost to travel may have curtailed some of the racing. What's the concensus here?
* I'm firmly of the opinion that the MidAm Bonus Race is NOT an attendance generator. Aside from the 5 or 8 or 10 folks fighting for a divisional championship, the folks racing in that event are the "usual suspects" one would normally see at any given track.
I'll bet that more than one division championship was "won" in Memphis in 2003 the same as was "won" this year at MAM - I was there, and that event in 2003 certainly set no attendance records.
* MAM and Nashville (a track physically located in the Southeast Division) are 725 miles apart. Half of that is 312 miles, or somewhere in the neighborhood of 6 hours towing. Going back to Rocky's theory above, is there REALLY a conflict if there are two events that same weekend? How many here would actually be torn between the two tracks?
There ARE some good ideas floating around here, even though it's a little tense once in a while.
Jarrod
* Bill is right - the scheduling process is ugly. Everyone should, at the very least, attend the Midiv Convention to see the end of the process....but everyone also should know that there's a ton of work that happens before that meeting.
* To the issue of the MAM race the weekend before Memphis: MVRG/MAM was originally scheduled for April 28/29. MVRG swapped weekends with St. Louis because Gateway wasn't available on May 19/20. Yes, St. Louis was tentatively scheduled for a Regional/National at Gateway on the weekend that MAM is now scheduled, the weekend before Memphis. (And no, there were no other dates in that timeframe available at MAM.)
* I agree, there are too many events. But, as noted, no one wants to (or can afford to) give up their dates. MVRG, for example, relies on two successful Regional/National weekends to be able to pay the bills for the Driver's School weekend the same year. Dropping one of those successful weekends may put the entire SCCA racing program at MAM in jeopardy, as the losses from one DS weekend could easily eat all of the profits of a single Regional/National weekend, particularly if THAT weekend were poorly attended for some reason.
* The "Must have a school" item that Travis mentioned is a "rule" that has frequently been referred to during the scheduling meetings, but can't be found in writing. That "rule" is that any track holding a National event MUST hold a Driver's School. The Exec Committee is working on a rotation schedule recommendation that would only REQUIRE a track/race group to hold a driver's school every other year, which will help the point above. (They would, of course, be allowed to hold one every year....)
* What would everyone here say if there were two, and ONLY two, SCCA weekends at any given track, period? How about two "regular" racing weekends, plus the "Every Other Year/Optional" driver's school weekend?
* Before we move too far down the concept of split regional/national weekends, I need to point out that the same group of workers would need to support all of the races. Adding additional weekends by splitting regional and national racing may further exacerbate the already critical worker issue.
* National racing participation was at record high levels last year (even taking Heartland Park out of the equation); meanwhile, regional racing participation was at record low levels. Rocky's theory attributes this drop in regional racing to the high price of gasoline: as regional racers are "typically" lower-budget racers, the additional cost to travel may have curtailed some of the racing. What's the concensus here?
* I'm firmly of the opinion that the MidAm Bonus Race is NOT an attendance generator. Aside from the 5 or 8 or 10 folks fighting for a divisional championship, the folks racing in that event are the "usual suspects" one would normally see at any given track.
I'll bet that more than one division championship was "won" in Memphis in 2003 the same as was "won" this year at MAM - I was there, and that event in 2003 certainly set no attendance records.
* MAM and Nashville (a track physically located in the Southeast Division) are 725 miles apart. Half of that is 312 miles, or somewhere in the neighborhood of 6 hours towing. Going back to Rocky's theory above, is there REALLY a conflict if there are two events that same weekend? How many here would actually be torn between the two tracks?
There ARE some good ideas floating around here, even though it's a little tense once in a while.
Jarrod
bldn10
New member
FWIW I have been "defending" Memphis and St. Louis only because they are the 2 tracks under attack. I would argue just as strongly for any of the others because - like I said - the champ should be at least one of the best at a variety of if not every track in the Div. Conceptually, a rule that you had to run every track would make sense but I'm afraid it might cut some people out who don't have the time and/or budget for long hauls to tracks at the extremes of the Div. like Memphis and MAM. We have compromised by limiting points at any 1 track. Although not the case in any one year, rotating the Bonus Race is the only way to factor out both "home field" advantage and type of track. On the other hand, w/ Hastings coming on board, the only way to get drivers from the west side of the Div. to Memphis and St. Louis might be to have the Bonus Race rotate between those tracks only. IMO Hastings is simply the track we didn't need and, following Travis' concern for the Div. as a whole, hurts.
Jarrod, you are generally correct about Memphis and MAM due to their locations, but I was not just talking about the Bonus Race. E.g. in my class, ITS, Aaron Holstrom (And congrats to Aaron - he drives that 1st gen. RX-7 for all its worth and did what it took to win.
) But the fact is that he got 3 wins at MAM including the Bonus Race, that's 48 points, and in all 3 faced another Mid-Am competitor only once. Actually that points to a bigger problem - this year only ITA and ITE had consistently decent Mid-Am fields. 
Jarrod, you are generally correct about Memphis and MAM due to their locations, but I was not just talking about the Bonus Race. E.g. in my class, ITS, Aaron Holstrom (And congrats to Aaron - he drives that 1st gen. RX-7 for all its worth and did what it took to win.
) But the fact is that he got 3 wins at MAM including the Bonus Race, that's 48 points, and in all 3 faced another Mid-Am competitor only once. Actually that points to a bigger problem - this year only ITA and ITE had consistently decent Mid-Am fields.
fiat124girl
New member
How do we go about getting rid of the bonus race?
mustanghammer
New member
I wouldn't be in favor of that!
What about scheduling the bonus race earlier in the year? The bonus points would not accrue for a driver until they ran the required number of races. Since points championships are little bit more in doubt in June or July more drivers might see the benefit of attending a race that could pay double points at some point.
Bonus races, Enduros and the like are event features that can be encorporated on the Regional side to make a regional race more attractive. How about these ideas;
Have a featured class at an event - IT, Prod, GT, open wheel, etc - and give them an extra session or a longer race
Pro IT
Inverted starts
Race the oval at St Louis - no road course! Hey Bubba, how much wedge can I get in an RX7!?
It's Regional racing - let have some fun and do something different!
I like the idea of adding extra track time to try and let the regional drivers have a liittle more fun. We have discussed it in the St. Louis Region, but so far it hasn't panned out. I don't like the idea of running the oval at St. Louis. I think that the track is fast enough and running the oval would be a little to dangerous in my idea. I am also not sure if the insurance would change and if the St. Louis Region would want to deal with it.
fiat124girl
New member
Scott,
Why are you in favor of the bonus race? It just means that you can run less races and win the championship.
Why are you in favor of the bonus race? It just means that you can run less races and win the championship.
mustanghammer
New member
Hmmmm.... good point. I have had the bonus race benefit me (this year) and hurt me (2004). However I do believe that most of the time the deserving party is wining the Championship - bonue race or no bonus race. Keep in mind that you do have to start and finish 4 races before the Bonus Race points are doubled. Maybe more races should be added to this requirement?
I guess I look at the Bonus race as being the closest thing that we have to an end of season Championship. I may be wrong but I think that double points were offered as a way to increase the number of drivers with a shot at the Championship or a year end award. It also creates an event that has added draw and as a result may put drivers on the track at the same time that have not faced off all year.
I'll send an E-mail to Rocky. He may be able to add some perspective.
Long before I was a driver I worked for KC Raceware busting tires. In those years I attended all of the races on the Mid Div calendar. As I recall the Bonus race was pretty special back then and provided good racing.
Let keep the ideas flowing
fiat124girl
New member
Scott,
I do remember when the bonus race was an exciting event but I think that it has become outdated.
I really think that the championship should be awarded on the best points finisher alone.
I do remember when the bonus race was an exciting event but I think that it has become outdated.
I really think that the championship should be awarded on the best points finisher alone.
fiat124girl
New member
Travis, I do mean with the 6 race cap. Sorry I didn't make that clear, I agree that it should not be a towing contest.
I think that it should be the top six races and that you need to race at three different tracks in order to qualify.
What does everyone think of that?
bldn10
New member
"I think that it should be the top six races and that you need to race at three different tracks in order to qualify."
The one change I would make would be to require drivers from the west to have at least one race in the east - Memphis and St. Louis. Like it or not the Div. really is split up between 3, soon to be 4, tracks in the west and 2 in the east. A 3-track requirement would necessitate the east drivers doing at least one of the western tracks, which is a good thing, but the western drivers could stay home. Indeed, those up in the northwest part of the Div. could get their complement of events at MAM, Topeka, and Hastings and never even venture to Hallett, much less Memphis and St. Louis.
The one change I would make would be to require drivers from the west to have at least one race in the east - Memphis and St. Louis. Like it or not the Div. really is split up between 3, soon to be 4, tracks in the west and 2 in the east. A 3-track requirement would necessitate the east drivers doing at least one of the western tracks, which is a good thing, but the western drivers could stay home. Indeed, those up in the northwest part of the Div. could get their complement of events at MAM, Topeka, and Hastings and never even venture to Hallett, much less Memphis and St. Louis.
fiat124girl
New member
Good point Bill, how about we make it a four track requirement? Would that work? I just really dislike the bonus race.
mustanghammer
New member
I think that it is interesting that the racers that are posting here seem to be in favor of making the Mid Am a tougher series - more tracks, east/west requirements, no bonus race, etc - while the the Mid Div rules makers changed a few Mid Am rules for 2007 so that qualifying for Mid Am is easier. For example the number of required race starts/finishes has been reduced, drivers that earn 30 or more national points are eliminated from the Mid Am and there was talk of removing the two race track requirement. It seems to me that the rules makers and the participants want the same thing but have drastically different solutions.
So the $64K question is how do we get our desires and idea accross to the people that schedule and run our events? Maybe we need a Regional Racing committee or leadership group that can work on Regional issues. After all the National Program is pretty much defined by the GCR.
What do you think?
So the $64K question is how do we get our desires and idea accross to the people that schedule and run our events? Maybe we need a Regional Racing committee or leadership group that can work on Regional issues. After all the National Program is pretty much defined by the GCR.
What do you think?
fiat124girl
New member
Scott,
You bring up a good idea, develope a regional road race committee for the region. Does it exist?
If you removed the two race track requirement you could have a champion who never ran against any of the other leaders in the competition, that is a bad idea.
Anybody else have any ideas?
You bring up a good idea, develope a regional road race committee for the region. Does it exist?
If you removed the two race track requirement you could have a champion who never ran against any of the other leaders in the competition, that is a bad idea.
Anybody else have any ideas?
Personally, I like the multi-track requirement. The number of tracks is up for grabs. For me here in the South part of the division, the schedule works fine. About one race per month. Last summer the MAM race was a long pull for me. And putting IT last on the docket made me stay out another night on the road. At some races, we get to race just before lunch, and I can make it home for supper. I'm still trying to learn all the tracks, so it doesn't matter to me. I like Memphis on Memorial Day, and STL....even if they both are HP tracks (and I'm low on HP).
This does not realy belong in this discussion but because people have been bad mouthing Gateway I wanted to say something.
I like this track, The folks there are great. My first time there I was HOURS ahead of schedule and they let me in anyway. I got all setup set down and watched some TV. They came by and let me know that they unlocked the bathrooms for us. Great customer service.
I will also say that the track is one of the most spectator friendly tracks that I go to. I took a friend to Hallett and HPT and they said they could not see everything. It might not be a "real" road race track but it does have its pluses.
As far as the two Tenn tracks that is just to long of a haul for me. I guess I am lucky as I have STL,HPT,MAM all less then 4hrs away...some lots less.
I like this track, The folks there are great. My first time there I was HOURS ahead of schedule and they let me in anyway. I got all setup set down and watched some TV. They came by and let me know that they unlocked the bathrooms for us. Great customer service.
I will also say that the track is one of the most spectator friendly tracks that I go to. I took a friend to Hallett and HPT and they said they could not see everything. It might not be a "real" road race track but it does have its pluses.
As far as the two Tenn tracks that is just to long of a haul for me. I guess I am lucky as I have STL,HPT,MAM all less then 4hrs away...some lots less.