Bill Miller
New member
Dave,
Are you building a new car???
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608
Are you building a new car???
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608
1993 Golf III in ITB
- Thread starter itbgti
- Start date
I have been reading this A3 post with interest. A lot of you folks have been indicating that certain cars need to get reclassified. Usually down the line. I totally agree. Now if indeed the A3 gets put into ITB then of course I will grumble, jump up and down and perhaps cry a little, but ultamately I will accept it. My little 1.3L Suzuki won't have a chance.
I do believe we need to periodically push the cars down and make way for the newer models. I have been preaching this for years. If we don't, the classes will fade away until nothing is left except spec series. Just like the A3 getting lowered into ITB, I think the 92 Civic Si (1.6L 125hp-VTEC) should be sent down into ITA and de-thrown the CRX. This is just IT evolution and makes sense. So, I will complain about the ITB A3, but when my Swift gets chucked down into ITC, look out.
I do believe we need to periodically push the cars down and make way for the newer models. I have been preaching this for years. If we don't, the classes will fade away until nothing is left except spec series. Just like the A3 getting lowered into ITB, I think the 92 Civic Si (1.6L 125hp-VTEC) should be sent down into ITA and de-thrown the CRX. This is just IT evolution and makes sense. So, I will complain about the ITB A3, but when my Swift gets chucked down into ITC, look out.
Dave Zaslow
New member
Bill,
I am seriously thinking about it. For some reason the A3 speaks to me much more than an A2. The Rabbit has been tweaked and rolled. It is still running well, but I wanted to re-shell it after 10 years. No rot Rabbit shells are too rare for me to find within a reasonable distance, or are too expensive because they have been modded. I am tired of looking at "no rot" cars with large holes in the crushed rocker panels. The Rabbit racecars that are for sale in the northeast are all ones I have beaten. I could do an A2 easily, but building and developing an A3 should carry me into my dotage. The A3 has lousy gearing and no great power advantage over other B VW's. There is no great increase in HP available from legal mods. The chip adds only a little. We will see where all of this shakes later this year.
Dave Z
I am seriously thinking about it. For some reason the A3 speaks to me much more than an A2. The Rabbit has been tweaked and rolled. It is still running well, but I wanted to re-shell it after 10 years. No rot Rabbit shells are too rare for me to find within a reasonable distance, or are too expensive because they have been modded. I am tired of looking at "no rot" cars with large holes in the crushed rocker panels. The Rabbit racecars that are for sale in the northeast are all ones I have beaten. I could do an A2 easily, but building and developing an A3 should carry me into my dotage. The A3 has lousy gearing and no great power advantage over other B VW's. There is no great increase in HP available from legal mods. The chip adds only a little. We will see where all of this shakes later this year.
Dave Z
Bill Miller
New member
Sounds like a plan Dave, but I'm not sure if I share your view about no power advantage over the over ITB VW's. The conventional wisdom seems to say that a stock A3 2.0 makes as much power as a Rabbit GTI in IT trim. I haven't really explored what kind of real gains you'll get w/ the 2.0 x-flow motor, but I would imagine something on the order of 130-135 CHP.
The gearing is not what I would call 'horrible', and I think that if mated to the right R&P (4.20 perhaps?) that it'll be fine. The 3rd/4th and 4th/5th spacing is actually closer than w/ the 2H or 4K box.
It's only got 70# on the A2 cars, and I would think the larger displacement and bigger brakes would only help. I wish I knew more about A3 suspension geometry w.r.t. A1 and A2 geometry.
If the CB opens it up to all of the A3 2.0 8v cars, it'll be interesting. If not, it's a question as to just how many cars will actually be built.
Good luck!!!!
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608
The gearing is not what I would call 'horrible', and I think that if mated to the right R&P (4.20 perhaps?) that it'll be fine. The 3rd/4th and 4th/5th spacing is actually closer than w/ the 2H or 4K box.
It's only got 70# on the A2 cars, and I would think the larger displacement and bigger brakes would only help. I wish I knew more about A3 suspension geometry w.r.t. A1 and A2 geometry.
If the CB opens it up to all of the A3 2.0 8v cars, it'll be interesting. If not, it's a question as to just how many cars will actually be built.
Good luck!!!!
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608
Bill Miller
New member
OUCH!
Touche Peter.
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608
Dave Zaslow
New member
Peter,
The 2 liter Volvo's have been in B forever. The Rabbit GTI was an A car originally. It was moved down around '94 or so. The change of the A3 would recognize the 10th anniversary of that historic decision(?)
In my recent letters to the comp board I have asked for a realignment of the IT classes based on grouping cars of certain weight/power ratios together. Take the manufacturers weight of the base model with no options, divide by the manufacturers claimed horspower. Period. I know it is too simplistic, and that many other things should be considered, but I would like something easy to understand and non-political.
I would support a petition to bring the Accord into B along with the 1.6 1st generation Integra.
The 2 liter Volvo's have been in B forever. The Rabbit GTI was an A car originally. It was moved down around '94 or so. The change of the A3 would recognize the 10th anniversary of that historic decision(?)
In my recent letters to the comp board I have asked for a realignment of the IT classes based on grouping cars of certain weight/power ratios together. Take the manufacturers weight of the base model with no options, divide by the manufacturers claimed horspower. Period. I know it is too simplistic, and that many other things should be considered, but I would like something easy to understand and non-political.
I would support a petition to bring the Accord into B along with the 1.6 1st generation Integra.
Eric Parham
New member
A friend offered me a '95, but I'm going to try to hold out for a 2-dr '94 since it's much more likely that that will be included next year (since '95 will apparently be eligible for SS until '05). Did have a close look at the car, though:
Upon casual inspection Golf 3 (A3) front suspension looks identical or at least interchangeable with Golf 2 for IT purposes. Other than spring rates, I'd say the stuff developed for Golf 2s should work fine. Rear suspension is slightly different but not much (only diff I saw was rear pivot bushings). Golf 3 seems more like a restyled Golf 2 -- nothing like the change from Rabbit/Golf 1 to Golf 2, or for that matter, Golf 2/3 to Golf 4.
As far as the crossflow head, my hillclimber friends say the potential is only equal to to non-crossflow heads due to inline valve position. But heck, at least it's not any worse!
Bill made a good point about the trans ratios. I guess I forgot to use my calculator before dissing it. Sure did seem wide during a test drive, though...
Upon casual inspection Golf 3 (A3) front suspension looks identical or at least interchangeable with Golf 2 for IT purposes. Other than spring rates, I'd say the stuff developed for Golf 2s should work fine. Rear suspension is slightly different but not much (only diff I saw was rear pivot bushings). Golf 3 seems more like a restyled Golf 2 -- nothing like the change from Rabbit/Golf 1 to Golf 2, or for that matter, Golf 2/3 to Golf 4.
As far as the crossflow head, my hillclimber friends say the potential is only equal to to non-crossflow heads due to inline valve position. But heck, at least it's not any worse!
Bill made a good point about the trans ratios. I guess I forgot to use my calculator before dissing it. Sure did seem wide during a test drive, though...
Dave Zaslow
New member
From the June Fastrack now posted:
IT
2. Reclassify 1993 Volkswagen Golf.
(Zaslow) Tabled for review of all model year
Golf specifications.
My request was to classify the Golf III from 93 to 98 on one spec line. Keep those cards and letters going.....
Dave Zaslow
IT
2. Reclassify 1993 Volkswagen Golf.
(Zaslow) Tabled for review of all model year
Golf specifications.
My request was to classify the Golf III from 93 to 98 on one spec line. Keep those cards and letters going.....
Dave Zaslow
Dave Zaslow
New member
I have been told that the reclassification from ITA to ITB is in question, with negative leanings.
Please, if you would like to build one, or you think this would be a good move to keep VW alive in ITB, send the comp board a letter. It is what the IT Ad Hoc committee is waiting for. You may ask that the car be reclassified, and you may further ask that the model years be expanded through 1998.
For those that I've talked to, who said they would do it if given the opportunity, now is the time to act.
If anyone is running an A3 in ITA please send me an email at [email protected]. The committee is seeking results that shows the current cars' competitiveness and there is no-one in NEDiv that I know of.
Thanks,
Dave Zaslow
Please, if you would like to build one, or you think this would be a good move to keep VW alive in ITB, send the comp board a letter. It is what the IT Ad Hoc committee is waiting for. You may ask that the car be reclassified, and you may further ask that the model years be expanded through 1998.
For those that I've talked to, who said they would do it if given the opportunity, now is the time to act.
If anyone is running an A3 in ITA please send me an email at [email protected]. The committee is seeking results that shows the current cars' competitiveness and there is no-one in NEDiv that I know of.
Thanks,
Dave Zaslow
Bill Miller
New member
Dave,
Is the proposal to move the car from ITA to ITB at it's ITA weight?
BTW, can we piggy-back a proposal to move the Rabbit GTI from ITB to ITC?
BTW, why aren't they sitting on this until the issue w/ comp. adjustments in IT is decided? I couldn't count the things in the last 2 FasTracks that used that as the reason for delaying any decisions on pending requests.
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608
Is the proposal to move the car from ITA to ITB at it's ITA weight?
BTW, can we piggy-back a proposal to move the Rabbit GTI from ITB to ITC?
BTW, why aren't they sitting on this until the issue w/ comp. adjustments in IT is decided? I couldn't count the things in the last 2 FasTracks that used that as the reason for delaying any decisions on pending requests.
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608
Dave Zaslow
New member
Bill,
I cannot divine the thoughts of the comp board, I am only reflecting on what a member of the IT ad hoc committee mentioned to me this week and last. Waiting for weight (comp adjustments) was not mentioned.
Not a large showing of ITC cars at Lime Rock this weekend. Maybe the Rabbit GTI should be moved down to bolster the field...;-)
Dave Z
I cannot divine the thoughts of the comp board, I am only reflecting on what a member of the IT ad hoc committee mentioned to me this week and last. Waiting for weight (comp adjustments) was not mentioned.
Not a large showing of ITC cars at Lime Rock this weekend. Maybe the Rabbit GTI should be moved down to bolster the field...;-)
Dave Z
Bildon
New member
Do we have any idea who (if any) are advising/campaigning against the move?
Members of the comp board do read this forum...so it would behoove us
to outline our cause here as well. However, only those issues submitted officially to the comp board will be "counted"...so send you point of view to [email protected]
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Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport
Volkswagen Racing Equipment
## 2002 ITB NYSRRC Champs ##
Members of the comp board do read this forum...so it would behoove us
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Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport
Volkswagen Racing Equipment
## 2002 ITB NYSRRC Champs ##
Bildon
New member
I would like those of you whom are for the move of the Golf /// to ITB to email me.
[email protected]
The Golf 1 and 2 are getting older and in 5 years it would be sad if us "VW guys" have only ancient cars to race competitively. I would like to see the Golf 3 classed where it can be competitive even if it gains some weight!
For that matter I'd like to see the 2L Golf 4 classed in 1.5 years...
ITB will be full of 2L cars in the future. Even though the 2L Volvo and BMW guys are worried, I know the A3 Golf can be classed in such a way as to be competitive without obsoleting these other cars.
Cheers,
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Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport
Volkswagen Racing Equipment
## 2002 ITB NYSRRC Champs ##
[email protected]
The Golf 1 and 2 are getting older and in 5 years it would be sad if us "VW guys" have only ancient cars to race competitively. I would like to see the Golf 3 classed where it can be competitive even if it gains some weight!
For that matter I'd like to see the 2L Golf 4 classed in 1.5 years...
ITB will be full of 2L cars in the future. Even though the 2L Volvo and BMW guys are worried, I know the A3 Golf can be classed in such a way as to be competitive without obsoleting these other cars.
Cheers,
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Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport
Volkswagen Racing Equipment
## 2002 ITB NYSRRC Champs ##
Dave Zaslow
New member
One more time....send those cars and letters, or see this opportunity die on the vine....
From the newly posted July Fastrack:
The following items have been have
been previously addressed, are submitted
for information only, or require no
further action by the Competition
Board.
IMPROVED TOURING
1. I do not support reclass of 1993
Volkswagen Golf. (Various) Thank you for
your member input.
From the newly posted July Fastrack:
The following items have been have
been previously addressed, are submitted
for information only, or require no
further action by the Competition
Board.
IMPROVED TOURING
1. I do not support reclass of 1993
Volkswagen Golf. (Various) Thank you for
your member input.