Any new ideas for racing this year?

[RSTPerformance]

Dave-

I don't like the oval that much... I ran a de-tuned Nextell car on the oval last year with unrestricted speed (IE: not Richard Petty school where you follow someone). It was fun, and I deffinatly scared myself a few times, but it is not nearly as fun as the road racing circut...

Also with all of our cars being very different and the fact that we are all good drivers , I don't think talent would win but rather how fast your car is. After my driving experience I can see how in "Nascar" some talent comes into play as a well set up car will be much much faster, and driving slightly better with equal cars will make a .05 - .1 of a second lead per lap wich will build a lot over the period of a race. But with the differences in most of our classes I don'tthink it would be much of a race... I think the spec miatas would be fun, but thats about it...

I like the ideas of qualifyings being made into Races...

Also I like the idea of the HPDC along with an enduro... That might work on the enduro weekend rather than the practice sessions for sundays races and the qualifying for the enduro... Just draw names out of the hat for starting position in the Enduro. use the funds from the HPDC and Enduro entries to decreas the now 1 day regional entry fee

Raymond

 

[RacerBill]

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt@Dec 19 2005, 04:11 PM
I was wondering if anyone had any cool ideas for racing this year.  I hope to get to a NERRC Club Racing meeting in the coming months and I figured if we had any cool ideas I could Champion them when I go.

Anything?  I have heard a couple ideas so far:

- Use a qualifying race instead of pure qualifying at an event
- Try a standing start an an event

Anything else anyone has on their mind?

AB

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Andy: Indy region also ran a real fun event. They ran it two years in a row at the last regional of the year at IRP. It was a handicapped 10 lap race with the slowest car starting first and the fastest car starting last. Theory was that if every car turned the same time equal to their fastest race lap time, for ten laps, all the cars would cross the finish line at the same time! The result is that the field packs up rather than stirngs out. Restricted to closed wheel cars only!

We ran a two hour kart enduro with a similar format, and it was great - six teams our of eight finished on the same lap! after two hours of racing!

 

[RSTPerformance]

Not really a fun suggestion like the rest of you have had but one that would make our events safer for our friends, kids and families....

Predetermined grid positions for practices and qualifying. I am always annoyed at lime rock when I try to go get air in the main paddock for my tires when I can't get there because there are lines of people for the next 3 race groups. (And yes I do the same thing...)
With our current set-up if you want to be in the front of the rungroup you line up early, then earlier, then earlier, then even earlier! I wasn't at any races last year so maybe it has improved but I can tell you after going to mid-ohio where they had 700 entrants it was very organized and "un-clutterd" at grid for every session. In Theory this makes it much much safer for everyone... emegency vehicles, fist fights on who goes first, ect, ect
For us I think haveing you start by your NARRC points would be great. It's simple and just requires a printout of the current point standings. It would also kinda give you a reason to run events and try to earn more points.... Just like Alpine SKI Racing! I would volunteer to help the region do this since it really just requires an excell spreadsheet that has everyones current points. then you delete everyone that has not registered as of 9Am in the morning. If there are multiple race groups creating theoretical ties then the theoretical faster classed car goes first. For those that all have zero points it could just go by random draw. (Not possible to really tell who registered first, as far as I know, and this would just complicate things) Instead we can have a random number count created for each event from 1-100 and use that as the standard for all run groups. (Then use your car # to decide where your grid spot is)

In conclusion I think this would make our race weekends safer and is a proactive way to prevent a potetially dangerous situation that will eventually happen someday. This would also give another reason to run events and accumulate points.

Stephen Belthen

On a side note...
I think the NARRC Runnoffs should have grid for the actual race set up this way as well since it is the NARRC Runnoffs an it should benifit those that have raced for the points that they have accumulated throughout the year.

 

[bg43wex]

Originally posted by benspeed@Dec 19 2005, 09:32 PM
Change up trophies - plaques get boring

Photos of race podium finishers - have Roz or somebody take some shots for the NESCCA site.

I like the idea of a standing start - can I buy insurance for that part of the race?

I love the idea of using qualifying at LRP on a Friday for a race instead - draw your position and give a bunch of folks a chance to finish on the podium and make the faster cars work to the front. That would make for some exciting racing.

A NE Region/Mid Atlantic/SE Region championship race would be very fun. Someplace central like Summit.
 

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Ben,
I wish you were an NER member then I could announce that we have a new trophy chief . (suttle hint we could use a new volunteer)
It's easy to make a blunt statement like yours when in reality plaques are chosen because they are the least hassle to purchase and distrubute. a few years ago NER distributed bowling style trophies. although they looked cool they were heavy and occupied large amounts of space when competitors did not pick up.

Photo Trophies were dropped due to the high cost of Roz pictures and the poor turn around time for deliver (some times 6 months). and getting podium finishers to report for a picture is like trying to herd cat's.

You CAN NOT in any way shape or form race on a friday at LRP.. this is in the injunction and means qualifying races as well, maybe some other region would like to try this one but with fewer and fewer events at that facilty why rock the boat?

Standing starts would be difficult with out having grid out on the front straight setting car position, there are no spots marked on the track nor can we paint marks, chaulk may be an option but not if the event is within 1 week of a cup date which our July and September events are.

Summit regularly bangs out it's events what motivation do they have to stage a multi divisional event?

brian m

 

[gran racing]

Predetermined grid positions for practices and qualifying.

Excellent point! The MARRS event I did at Summit this year used random starting positions. It worked out very nicely. The whole get to the false grid waaaaay early creates a mess.

 

[Matt Rowe]

Originally posted by gran racing@Dec 21 2005, 03:33 PM
Excellent point!  The MARRS event I did at Summit this year used random starting positions.  It worked out very nicely.  The whole get to the false grid waaaaay early creates a mess.

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Actually the MARRS series uses a variety of different methods to determine grid position. I've been told it is selected group by group based on the wishes of the individual driver's reps. I seem to remember one time it was based on fastest lap of the season? Another was random and so on. But the important point is that you know your grid spot in advance so there is no reason to waste time pre-pre-pre-gridding.

 

[RSTPerformance]

Originally posted by Matt Rowe@Dec 21 2005, 04:43 PM
Actually the MARRS series uses a variety of different methods to determine grid position. I've been told it is selected group by group based on the wishes of the individual driver's reps. I seem to remember one time it was based on fastest lap of the season? Another was random and so on. But the important point is that you know your grid spot in advance so there is no reason to waste time pre-pre-pre-gridding.

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I really like the idea of gridding by points because I honestly think it would create much more interest into the "series" rather than just the one weekend itself. It really could create more excitment about points. It would also be cool to see how you stand compaired to your competitors.... it gives it a nice visual perspective for the entire feild.

 

[benspeed]

Originally posted by bg43wex@Dec 21 2005, 07:41 PM
Ben,
I wish you were an NER member then I could announce that we have a new trophy chief . (suttle hint we could use a new volunteer)
It's easy to make a blunt statement like yours when in reality plaques are chosen because they are the least hassle to purchase and distrubute. a few years ago NER distributed bowling style trophies. although they looked cool they were heavy and occupied large amounts of space when competitors did not pick up.

Photo Trophies were dropped due to the high cost of Roz pictures and the poor turn around time for deliver (some times 6 months). and getting podium finishers to report for a picture is like trying to herd cat's.

You CAN NOT in any way shape or form race on a friday at LRP.. this is in the injunction and means qualifying races as well, maybe some other region would like to try this one but with fewer and fewer events at that facilty why rock the boat?

Standing starts would be difficult with out having grid out on the front straight setting car position, there are no spots marked on the track nor can we paint marks, chaulk may be an option but not if the event is within 1 week of a cup date which our July and September events are.

Summit regularly bangs out it's events what motivation do they have to stage a multi divisional event?

brian m

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Hey Brian - I thought we were looking for suggestions on this thread...

 

[mlytle]

Originally posted by Matt Rowe@Dec 21 2005, 08:43 PM
Actually the MARRS series uses a variety of different methods to determine grid position. I've been told it is selected group by group based on the wishes of the individual driver's reps. I seem to remember one time it was based on fastest lap of the season? Another was random and so on. But the important point is that you know your grid spot in advance so there is no reason to waste time pre-pre-pre-gridding.

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yup, that is how we do it. each class decides how they want to grid up ahead of time. some like random, some like by season points, a few have tried fastest lap to date. regardless, you know where you are gridded for the first session when you go through registration. second session is by time from the first session.

works well.

marshall
marrs its drivers rep
we grid by season points

 

[anthony1k]

How about revamping the (NESCCA?) web site?
I'd like to see race results posted in a more timely basis, in a consistent format (not PDF) and with a points tally throughout the season.

 

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by anthony1k@Dec 22 2005, 04:25 PM
How about revamping the (NESCCA?) web site?
I'd like to see race results posted in a more timely basis, in a consistent format (not PDF) and with a points tally throughout the season.

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What series are you looking to follow? I think they only do the Enduro Series but are otherwise a catch-all. More specific info can be found at the Series sites. The NERRC is www.ner.org and the NARRC is hosted by Norther New Jersey at http://www.scca-nnjr.org/NNJR_Race/NARRC.shtml

AB

 

[gran racing]

What about using both ovals and the standard road course section? Or possible use the first chicane then the 2nd oval.

 

[RSTPerformance]

Dave-

That is an interesting idea... hummm, way cool

Raymond

 

[RKramden]

Originally posted by bg43wex@Dec 21 2005, 03:41 PM
Standing starts would be difficult with out having grid out on the front straight setting car position, there are no spots marked on the track nor can we paint marks, chaulk may be an option but not if the event is within 1 week of a cup date which our July and September events are.

From the GCR:

7.5. SCCA STANDARD START (ROLLING START)

The following rolling start technique shall be known as the SCCA Standard Start and shall be utilized at all SCCA races, unless an alternate procedure has been approved by the Divisional Executive Steward and is set out in the Supplementary Regulations for the event.

We used to use a "standing start" at the Little LeMans races like that used at LeMans. It was modified to have a crew member run across the track and remove a cup that was taped on the back of the car, so the driver didn't have to get in the car and strap on the belts while trying to start the race. IIRC, the car keys (back in the real days of showroom stock) were in the cup and had to be handed to the driver.

We certainly could do a F1 type of standing start, but we need to think about the rules and get them approved ahead of time. Doing it at NHIS kind of scares me, because if there is an accident at the start, then it pretty much is going to block the track with no room to get by. Of course, the start could be on the chute between turns 10 and 11, where there is plenty of room. It doesn't have to be on the front straight.

Matter of fact, the "start" itself could be on the NASCAR track before NASCAR three, then no matter what happened, the race line would not be blocked.

 

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by RKramden@Dec 23 2005, 02:52 PM


Matter of fact, the "start" itself could be on the NASCAR track before NASCAR three, then no matter what happened, the race line would not be blocked.

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And if you did the start there, we could eliminate the problem of marking a 'starting grid'...you could do it out of duct tape on the ground that could be removed right after because that section isn't used during the race...

Hmmmm....I like it!

 

[benspeed]

That is a very cool idea! I would think that should add some serious excitement to the start and great racing nostalgia too

I also really like the idea of both ovals - particularly since I still suck getting into 12.

 

[moto62]

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt@Dec 19 2005, 04:11 PM
I was wondering if anyone had any cool ideas for racing this year....

....Anything else anyone has on their mind?

AB

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Coronas in the beer tub for the post race gathering.

 

[ulfelder]

I'll play devil's advocate/party pooper: I find the standing start gimmicky and unnecessary.

1: I make it to a half-dozen race weekends per year, and I suspect that's pretty typical for a club racer. The start of the race - yes, the old-fashioned rolling start - is the coolest, most challenging part. And since I only do it about 8 times a year, I am far from bored with it.

2: Standing starts are a recipe for carnage. I find it utterly obvious that the first time we tried them, we would see at least 3 drivers per race group CREAM the guy in front of them. I don't want to be the creamer or the creamee, thank you very much. My bodyshop bill is high enough as it stands.

3: Certain NER run groups have been begging for split starts for over a year. Unless I missed something (please correct me if I did), there ain't been no split starts yet. Why? Call it institutional inertia; it's hard to make a major procedural change in any organization, let alone one staffed by tireless volunteers who donate their weekends (and many weeknights, believe me). Bottom line: don't underestimate the logistical difficulty of trying something like this.

OK, you may now call me a fuddy-duddy.

Steve U
Flatout Motorsports
05 ITS

 

[RKramden]

Originally posted by ulfelder@Dec 26 2005, 09:15 AM
1: I make it to a half-dozen race weekends per year, and I suspect that's pretty typical for a club racer. The start of the race - yes, the old-fashioned rolling start - is the coolest, most challenging part. And since I only do it about 8 times a year, I am far from bored with it.

Actually, it is the old fashion standing start we are talking about. This wouldn't be something new, it would be something old. We used to do them all the time. The "rolling start" is the "new fangled" start. And I don't think it would be at all the races, either. Maybe we just use it for the enduro, where it is in everyones best interest to be on their best behaviour, as 6 hours is a long, long time to be watching everyone else racing because you were stupid at the start.

2: Standing starts are a recipe for carnage. I find it utterly obvious that the first time we tried them, we would see at least 3 drivers per race group CREAM the guy in front of them. I don't want to be the creamer or the creamee, thank you very much. My bodyshop bill is high enough as it stands.

No-one said it would be for ALL race groups, and I can think of a number of groups that should never have standing starts. Formula Continential is one of them. If your group had a standing start, then you could choose to start at the back (no-one to run into you), and you could control who you ran into. Your choice.

3: Certain NER run groups have been begging for split starts for over a year. Unless I missed something (please correct me if I did), there ain't been no split starts yet. Why? Call it institutional inertia; it's hard to make a major procedural change in any organization, let alone one staffed by tireless volunteers who donate their weekends (and many weeknights, believe me). Bottom line: don't underestimate the logistical difficulty of trying something like this.

You missed something

We (the region, and other regions at Lime Rock)) do both Split Grids and Split Starts as the situation warrents. It certainly is the perogitive of the Chief Steward, and it has to be in the Supps or ALL must agree. Unless everyone in the race group wants it and you can convince the C/S, that is.. If it is not in the supps and one person says no, then it is no.

I have been the starter for a number of split starts at NHIS and LRP with no, one, and two pace cars. (You do not need any pace cars if the drivers pay attention.) The rule I have used is simple. "The green waves until the last car of the first pack is over the Start/Finish line. If the second pack can see the green, you keep waving it."

So, if the first car in the second group follows to closely to the firat pack, they lose their split start.