Rabbit07
New member
Thats it Sanda, you are off my Christmas list...........
Want to buy a Dodge Viper? I am sick of looking at it.
August 2010 Fastrack
- Thread starter GTIspirit
- Start date
Thats it Sanda, you are off my Christmas list...........
Want to buy a Dodge Viper? I am sick of looking at it.
Rabbit07
New member
2006 13 hour at VIR. Poor kitty was a brake marker at turn 3 for about 10 laps. Ever since then, the name stuck.
Matt93SE
New member
Actually you're completely bastardizing my comments and trying to turn them into something that suits your perspective.
1. Currently there are few competitive people in our region. Several are 'new' cars and new drivers. A few are IT/SM double dippers. A few are national level cars and drivers that are currently running in other classes or are building additional cars for the class.
I never said anything about the region being competitive nationally- I said they were active and the class is growing with more than just IT/SM cars.
2. I'm not winning trophies. yet. note my name doesn't even appear on the results sheets since I just got my novice permit earlier this month. (check again after the next R/R weekend though.) I never said anything about being thrilled to win trophies against under-prepped STU builds and current IT cars. I simply said I would be competitive locally.
Frankly I don't even care about finishing position at this point- long as it doesn't say DNF. I want to get out there and race and see where I stand. I'd really love to get out there and get my butt kicked by the fast guys to see how I stack up against what IS competitive. (since your obvious opinion is that we're driving a bunch of LeMons....)
3. I didn't say I hadn't bought tires in years, I said I hadn't bought NEW tires in years. Big difference. I buy takeoff R888s from pro teams, so they're shaved plus a couple heat cycles. They last me 2-3 weekends and cost me $75 each after shipping and mounting. Not as fast as new, but much less expensive. Once I gain experience and need the speed, I'll worry about the purple crackpipe. Until then, I'm content driving on harder tires and challenging myself to keep up with the guys running fresh rubber.
Is there anything else you'd like to distort?
lateapex911
Super Moderator
Well, sorry if I missed the mark. I AM glad you're running your car, and I took it that you were pleased with your results and finishes, and i thought I read those were top three occasionally. Maybe I misinterpreted that, but the bottom line, in my eyes, is that you're here running your car and having a good time, and that's great. Now, down the road, I guess we'll wait and see. Will you get attached to the class? Will you up your game? Will the class attract full tilt boogie builds? Will guys who entered the class with swapped motors, etc, have fun for a bit then get disenfranchised when the big guns come to town? I'm not saying you will, or wont. But I'm trying to see the big picture strategy, and the possible ramifications.
Attracting new drives is great. KEEPING new drivers is GREATER.
People leave racing for several reasons, and a fairly significant one is disillusionment. The class rules change and they get the dick sandwich, the class matures and they get left behind, or the class gets popular and the costs double or triple...(not to mention other things like having a kid, buying a house, working too much, not working enough, etc etc.)
I've been in the club long enough to see things come with great fanfare then quietly disappear (or cling to life support for years, which doesn't do many people any good at all). New classes cost the club. They take resources. Time is something committees don't have, and when they spend it on classes that are bad ideas, other categories suffer. The bigger toll is lost members. Guys that would have stayed if they had a better long term experience. SCCA isn't known for member retention and I'm not convinced we can place all the blame on grumpy stewards, LOL.
We want to have something for everyone. But that's a LOT of classes, and becomes a lapping day for a free trophy. We want good racing, but we can't all be in the same class. Balancing it all is key.
Attracting new drives is great. KEEPING new drivers is GREATER.
People leave racing for several reasons, and a fairly significant one is disillusionment. The class rules change and they get the dick sandwich, the class matures and they get left behind, or the class gets popular and the costs double or triple...(not to mention other things like having a kid, buying a house, working too much, not working enough, etc etc.)
I've been in the club long enough to see things come with great fanfare then quietly disappear (or cling to life support for years, which doesn't do many people any good at all). New classes cost the club. They take resources. Time is something committees don't have, and when they spend it on classes that are bad ideas, other categories suffer. The bigger toll is lost members. Guys that would have stayed if they had a better long term experience. SCCA isn't known for member retention and I'm not convinced we can place all the blame on grumpy stewards, LOL.
We want to have something for everyone. But that's a LOT of classes, and becomes a lapping day for a free trophy. We want good racing, but we can't all be in the same class. Balancing it all is key.
Kolin Aspegren
New member
but Childs actually killed ie ran over the cat. Lots of us were out there in other cars at the time. Track radio even reported that something was on the track at turn 3. Childs comes over the radio and confirms it was a cat.
13 could be the best race in scca
k
13 could be the best race in scca
k
Matt93SE
New member
Jake, I agree on all points. I'm 'cautiously optimistic' about the future of the class.
Is STU going to wind up being a small-bore money class? probably. But since I was in elementary school I've always been the poor kid competing on a budget in a rich class. I have no illusions of winning, but I'll be out there and you'll be amazed what a shoestring budget can do with a little imagination and the right connections.
It's been a 10 year fight to get this far- First there was no job. then there was too much job (still is). Then there was the first house purchase and the money pit. Then there was the second house since the first one had major undisclosed issues and we spent 3 years in court (eating up $30k of my track budget).
I've put off finishing the car and getting my license for 4 years due to work and life in general. so I got my license and now the wife is talking about squeaky things that you have to push around in a stroller. eeeek. (talk about a way to kill the racing budget!)
I know I'm dog slow compared to the fast guys. But I'm building the car as I want to and as time- and funds- allow. Just like the rest of the guys of moderate means running in my region. The plan is to do aero and build an engine next year, which is why the proposed rule changes are so important to me. It's time to pick an engine and get it to the machine shop if I'm going to have one ready for next year.
Is STU going to wind up being a small-bore money class? probably. But since I was in elementary school I've always been the poor kid competing on a budget in a rich class. I have no illusions of winning, but I'll be out there and you'll be amazed what a shoestring budget can do with a little imagination and the right connections.
It's been a 10 year fight to get this far- First there was no job. then there was too much job (still is). Then there was the first house purchase and the money pit. Then there was the second house since the first one had major undisclosed issues and we spent 3 years in court (eating up $30k of my track budget).
I've put off finishing the car and getting my license for 4 years due to work and life in general. so I got my license and now the wife is talking about squeaky things that you have to push around in a stroller. eeeek. (talk about a way to kill the racing budget!)
I know I'm dog slow compared to the fast guys. But I'm building the car as I want to and as time- and funds- allow. Just like the rest of the guys of moderate means running in my region. The plan is to do aero and build an engine next year, which is why the proposed rule changes are so important to me. It's time to pick an engine and get it to the machine shop if I'm going to have one ready for next year.
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OK so bottom line appears to be:
the ruleset for ST(L in particular) appears to be attractive but, is very poorly worked out.
There's no "need" for a double dipper class for IT due to the commonality of the ITE/X/O and SPO/U groups already existing.
IT guys who want to go national already can.. it's called production, and without a lot of money, your IT car wont be fast enough there, either. if you don't see a specline for your particular car and really want one, ask for it.
so what we are left with is something earily simillar to the additions to production a few years back when they started "limited prep" - now prep level 2. (which worked well to reinvigorate the class by adding new blood to the British Leyland parade) the weighting rules and allowed engine mods mean that whatever breathes and spins, wins. given the USDM rules - the number of engines under 2.0L with a realistic shot when built to the limit of the rule is less than 5, the number of manufacturers MIGHT be 3 - likely only 1 or 2 (honda, mazda - the club WILL find a way to make mazda competitive).
ST in general makes sense as a dumping ground for WC cars and an interesting place to daydream about swapping motors, big brakes, cool aero, and other bling. STO/U might be a great class for those interested in it, and it remains distinct enough from prod and GT (kind of a hybrid of the 2) to make sense. STL, depite the cool factor, doesn't add up. I'll eat some crow on that.
IF the rules were to be rewritten such that STO/U/L had the same core allowances of brakes, suspension tweeking, etc... and classified base weight by engine not displacement (using blanket, sepcline, or IT allowance for prep) AT LEAST IN STL, then the proposed addition would have something. I think the letters written to the CRB/BOD/STAC should aim toward making the class more sensible and fair rather than killing it outright - which is just not likely to happen.
the ruleset for ST(L in particular) appears to be attractive but, is very poorly worked out.
There's no "need" for a double dipper class for IT due to the commonality of the ITE/X/O and SPO/U groups already existing.
IT guys who want to go national already can.. it's called production, and without a lot of money, your IT car wont be fast enough there, either. if you don't see a specline for your particular car and really want one, ask for it.
so what we are left with is something earily simillar to the additions to production a few years back when they started "limited prep" - now prep level 2. (which worked well to reinvigorate the class by adding new blood to the British Leyland parade) the weighting rules and allowed engine mods mean that whatever breathes and spins, wins. given the USDM rules - the number of engines under 2.0L with a realistic shot when built to the limit of the rule is less than 5, the number of manufacturers MIGHT be 3 - likely only 1 or 2 (honda, mazda - the club WILL find a way to make mazda competitive).
ST in general makes sense as a dumping ground for WC cars and an interesting place to daydream about swapping motors, big brakes, cool aero, and other bling. STO/U might be a great class for those interested in it, and it remains distinct enough from prod and GT (kind of a hybrid of the 2) to make sense. STL, depite the cool factor, doesn't add up. I'll eat some crow on that.
IF the rules were to be rewritten such that STO/U/L had the same core allowances of brakes, suspension tweeking, etc... and classified base weight by engine not displacement (using blanket, sepcline, or IT allowance for prep) AT LEAST IN STL, then the proposed addition would have something. I think the letters written to the CRB/BOD/STAC should aim toward making the class more sensible and fair rather than killing it outright - which is just not likely to happen.
Bill Miller
New member
So what ever happened to the whole "No new National classes"? Or new National classes having to demonstrate participation numbers at the Regional level first? Oh yeah, this is the SCCA, they just make it up as they go.