erlrich
Super Moderator
Yeah, but it was a slow truck, so nobody cares
Does anyone cheat?
- Thread starter 73itb
- Start date
shwah
New member
Heck I'd just like to know what you think an illegal ignition mod is.
Tkczecheredflag
New member
When we ran the CRX in "C" - We arrived the night before the race, got set up, and removed the Doge Hemi truck body off the frame, placing the CRX shell in it's place. I am really suprised no one noticed - I will try to post an old picture that will demonstrate what I am saying - Will do so when I get back from Ohio tomorrow.
Seriuosly - Are we missing the obvious? Is Matt really pointing the finger at the Miata's? Is that his "real play"on this post? Matt enlighten us.
Gotta go - This morning breakfast sepcial at the Fairfield Inn in Srpingfield, Ohio is Miata Kool Aid - The line is forming as we speak.
Seriuosly - Are we missing the obvious? Is Matt really pointing the finger at the Miata's? Is that his "real play"on this post? Matt enlighten us.
Gotta go - This morning breakfast sepcial at the Fairfield Inn in Srpingfield, Ohio is Miata Kool Aid - The line is forming as we speak.
Andy Bettencourt
Super Moderator
Actually, Matt seems to say the Miata guys (SM) are probably the most legal...I might disagree - but that is of no issue to him as he is an ITB guy.
I am curious to understand his issue as well. Come on Matt- spill it!
I am curious to understand his issue as well. Come on Matt- spill it!
Tkczecheredflag
New member
tom_sprecher
Super Moderator
Am I Cheating?
I really don't know. I bought my car used and have no idea what came on a stock car so if some vestigial street items were removed I really wouldn't know.
My headlights and turn signals don't work. Does that count? I also may be missing that all important washer bottle. Does that count?
If it does and I get protested I won't fight it and you can have that $4 chunck of wood if I ever get to the other end of the field. Afterwards, I'll probably look into some other sanctioning bodies to see what they have to offer and see if they need a helping hand because I really don't need the hassle. I refuse to spend my time scouring junk yards and paying money I don't have for chicken $hit I don't need.
I understand the need to restrain rules creep and how beneficial a stable rule set can be. On the other handle those that keep the rules must understand the realities of racing 15-30 year old cars on a low budget. I would hope the IT founders had that intent on thier minds at the time of inception and if, not should have.
I really don't know. I bought my car used and have no idea what came on a stock car so if some vestigial street items were removed I really wouldn't know.
My headlights and turn signals don't work. Does that count? I also may be missing that all important washer bottle. Does that count?
If it does and I get protested I won't fight it and you can have that $4 chunck of wood if I ever get to the other end of the field. Afterwards, I'll probably look into some other sanctioning bodies to see what they have to offer and see if they need a helping hand because I really don't need the hassle. I refuse to spend my time scouring junk yards and paying money I don't have for chicken $hit I don't need.
I understand the need to restrain rules creep and how beneficial a stable rule set can be. On the other handle those that keep the rules must understand the realities of racing 15-30 year old cars on a low budget. I would hope the IT founders had that intent on thier minds at the time of inception and if, not should have.
I don't seem to recall seeing anything in the rules book about all that crap having to WORK. Sure, you've gotta have a washer bottle, and horns, etc... so what if a wire's broken?
Yes, I've got all that crap, no, I don't know if it works, I do know my headlight motor doesn't, but it's still there, the useless piece of ballast. So are my headlights, even though you can't see them.
Yes, I've got all that crap, no, I don't know if it works, I do know my headlight motor doesn't, but it's still there, the useless piece of ballast. So are my headlights, even though you can't see them.
tom_sprecher
Super Moderator
I Guess I Don't Care...
The items mentioned in my post do not work because there may be some missing pieces. At my level and type of racing I can not be concerned with it. Others may vary but I really don't care.
My position would change if someone shows up with engine or suspension mods that were a blatant violation of the rules and provide an unfair competition advantage. But stock items that serve no purpose other that to be there for the ride and have to be replaced should they be destroyed in a wreck because someone believes that is what is best for the category, I refuse to search for, purchase and add to my car. If other drivers and the rule makers can not acknowledge and accept my perspective then I can not reciprocate.
And if I get a hassle I’ll spend my time and money elsewhere. Like Sam Walton once said, “There is only one boss – the customer. And he can fire everybody in the company from the chairman on down, by spending his money somewhere else.” To often people ignore this little piece of advice until it is too late.
The items mentioned in my post do not work because there may be some missing pieces. At my level and type of racing I can not be concerned with it. Others may vary but I really don't care.
My position would change if someone shows up with engine or suspension mods that were a blatant violation of the rules and provide an unfair competition advantage. But stock items that serve no purpose other that to be there for the ride and have to be replaced should they be destroyed in a wreck because someone believes that is what is best for the category, I refuse to search for, purchase and add to my car. If other drivers and the rule makers can not acknowledge and accept my perspective then I can not reciprocate.
And if I get a hassle I’ll spend my time and money elsewhere. Like Sam Walton once said, “There is only one boss – the customer. And he can fire everybody in the company from the chairman on down, by spending his money somewhere else.” To often people ignore this little piece of advice until it is too late.
It goes back to an earlier post,, I am cheating very poorly , because I ran 21st, so I know everyone else is doing a much better job of cheating than me.
One wise a$$ even called me a "rolling chicane" what does that mean?
He was driving a Miata, so he must be smarter than me.
One wise a$$ even called me a "rolling chicane" what does that mean?
He was driving a Miata, so he must be smarter than me.
Butch Kummer
New member
As I suspect occurs in all classes/categories, we have the same type of constant discussion in GTA as well. One guy even went so far as to post that, in his twenty years of circle track racing, he's figured out there are two types of racer - cheaters and losers! The guys at the back invariably complain about the guys at the front cheating - did I mention this guy is generally toward the rearmost portion of the grid?
My standard answer to those types of statements is, "If you plan to run at the back then run whatever you want because nobody cares. If you plan to run at the front, however, you'd better damn sure be legal!"
Another buddy is Chief of Tech for one of the semi-pro road racing series, and they do regular inspections of the top three finishers plus a random check of others throughout the 30+ car field. He says the guys at the front are spot on the limit of the rules while most infractions they find are on those randomly chosen from the mid-pack back. That is supported by the recent GRM article (which I thought was very good) on "Pros vs. Shmoes". That article was dealing with Spec Miatas, but could well have been written about ANY class in ANY form of racing.
And when people think I'm cheating, I smile and take it as a compliment. It also means I've got them where I want them - thinking about MY car rather than trying to figure out how to improve THEIR car and driving.
My standard answer to those types of statements is, "If you plan to run at the back then run whatever you want because nobody cares. If you plan to run at the front, however, you'd better damn sure be legal!"
Another buddy is Chief of Tech for one of the semi-pro road racing series, and they do regular inspections of the top three finishers plus a random check of others throughout the 30+ car field. He says the guys at the front are spot on the limit of the rules while most infractions they find are on those randomly chosen from the mid-pack back. That is supported by the recent GRM article (which I thought was very good) on "Pros vs. Shmoes". That article was dealing with Spec Miatas, but could well have been written about ANY class in ANY form of racing.
And when people think I'm cheating, I smile and take it as a compliment. It also means I've got them where I want them - thinking about MY car rather than trying to figure out how to improve THEIR car and driving.
dj10
New member
lateapex911
Super Moderator
Tom, you are probably talking about things like trun signal reflectors that get broken and only half is remaining in the signal bucket, but....
....that statement could apply to other things, like oh, say, the headlight motors and linkages on our cars. Sure, I've replaced them on my car due to issues, and they aren't as light as air. I bet there's 10 pounds of stuff under there ..all hanging almost 2 feet in front of the front axle. I'd be pretty happy to take that weight out from where it's creating an even higher moment and put it where I actually need it.
I tend to try to err on the conservative side, because I look at examples like that, and I think that one is over the line. But where IS the line? It's different for everyone, and I understand that. What's "reasonable" to me isn't to another. So I try to err on the "more than reasonable" side, LOL.
lateapex911
Super Moderator
X eleventy billion...Excellent Post Butch!
tom_sprecher
Super Moderator
Was I that obvious or are you that good?
If and when I get to a position in the field that people start protesting me for the opposite of my more typical being too damn slow I'll add back, err, I mean, source, acquire and replace the items in question (the above plus headlamps, buckets, springs, adjusters, turn signal lamp reflectors, etc., ad nauseum) Until then, why should I risk destroying parts I might or might not have if you know what I mean?
If forced, it will only add to the "cons" column and I may say have to say enough. I'm not too worried about it as I have had the same discussion with other IT7 drivers down here and we all kinda feel the same. To an extent, of course.
Except for that Ricky Thompson guy. I just know he's cheating like a mofo.
Just kiddin' buddy. Hope to see you and Gary at CMP for the Monster.
dickita15
New member
Tom,
I can certainly respect where you are coming from. When I bought my first car I eventually learned about some things that were not legal, even a illegal carb linkage and I admit I raced it that way for a couple of years. I think everything is legal now but when I was not beating anyone why let that keep me home.
I can certainly respect where you are coming from. When I bought my first car I eventually learned about some things that were not legal, even a illegal carb linkage and I admit I raced it that way for a couple of years. I think everything is legal now but when I was not beating anyone why let that keep me home.
lateapex911
Super Moderator
Ah, but times have changed Dick, you have to be clean now that you've upped the game and are at the front!
gran racing
Super Moderator
Butch, I agree with what you said except that people towards the back don't care if others are cheating. When in ITA, I was mid pack at best, usually more towards the rear of the pack. I still felt that people should beat me because they were a better driver or at least because they had a better prepped car than I did. Missing indicator, or other minor things - true, I didn't care about that and never felt that was what was beating me. Cams, different pistons, ect. I still cared.
Tom, would you agree that there is a point cars should have certain items? I cracked my windshield and noticed how many circle track guys use some type of wire for their windshields since they break often. I've raced with guys who put on a big ole steel rear bumper since the OEM was too much to replace and this one would last. What Jake's getting at is somewhere I'm sure you have a line where you wouldn't consider things acceptable. Lexan side windows? Maybe a non-OEM style hood, one that happens to be much lighter?
Butch does have a valid point where people will tend to draw that line in different places the further closer to the pack the car is.
Tom, would you agree that there is a point cars should have certain items? I cracked my windshield and noticed how many circle track guys use some type of wire for their windshields since they break often. I've raced with guys who put on a big ole steel rear bumper since the OEM was too much to replace and this one would last. What Jake's getting at is somewhere I'm sure you have a line where you wouldn't consider things acceptable. Lexan side windows? Maybe a non-OEM style hood, one that happens to be much lighter?
Butch does have a valid point where people will tend to draw that line in different places the further closer to the pack the car is.
tom_sprecher
Super Moderator
I think for safety reasons your cucumber should be heat shielded, do not consider that cheating, would never file a protest against you and don't want to know when your doing it.
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