drivers working races

myself and others were met with mucho resistance from the "old world" crowd that wouldn't give up dates and couldn't see beyond their own noses.
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I know Mike Dickerson who used to work at the national office made this suggestion several times and received the same general reaction that Travis mentioned. Politics and SCCA regions often competiting with each other doesn't help much either.
 
Greg Amy said:
+ eleventybillion for all of that. Again.

It's gotten to the point now where you're not only getting a lot of VOLUNTEER burnout, you're even starting to see entrant/competitor burnout. That, right there, should be a big ole neon sign to the organizers.
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Holy Crap Greg and Trav agreed on something...

I agree 1 million percent as well, but here is another revelation. All the RE, CRB members are all volunteers as well. Based on some of the round rable discussions I have seen/heard at various venues, 2 things become obvious

1.The region is a club and it not the CEO's money (CEO being the head of the groups). If it were their money or their companies, the decisions I feel may be much different.

2. Some are not well versed in business.

Disclaimer: I am not taking any shots are NER members. The NARRC on the otherhand...

I have been thinking about this a lot since the annual meeting and I am going to begin working on a financial model for the NER at least on the price elasticity of events.
 
gran racing said:
I know Mike Dickerson who used to work at the national office made this suggestion several times and received the same general reaction that Travis mentioned. Politics and SCCA regions often competiting with each other doesn't help much either.
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I know Mike pretty well, and he's a guy that's not part of the problem.

Regions, in my experience, are absolutely terrible at working together to acheive a common goal. ie - CenDiv/GLDiv split, how has that worked out for you guys?

i don't mean to be insulting, but part of the problem is the qualifications of the people you have volunteering for these administrative/leadership roles. i don't mean to group EVERYONE together in this, as it seems Butch has done a good job, and we have a couple in our area (Scott Peterson, Bill Johnson, Jim Wheeler) who are high caliber as well, but.....

many of the people that really run the regions seem to have no actual real world experience that would give them the perspective and knowledge needed to make the directional and strategic type decisions that have far reaching implications beyond their respective regions. i've seen quality people TRY to get their nose in there and make a difference, but they're met with such resistance by the old guard that it becomes a undertaking that's just not worth the individual's time.....after all, this is supposed to be their fun/relaxing hobby......so they walk.

go ahead, flame away.
 
I heard a quote this weekend at the NER Annual Meeting that stuck with me. It was over some beers, while eating dinner and it was "damn, we are dealing with a 700k a year revenue generating business. Do you know how hard it is to make a 700k a year business?"
 
How about this:

Can Regions take a look at each specialty and the available quantity of core/fully trained workers and redesign the 'allocation' of the assets?

Meaning this: If you spread out the skilled volunteers, you might be able to make room for 'event by event temporary' volunteers that can work in short bursts with little training.

This could create a pool of workers that could move into the skilled qualification while equally importantly allowing for an influx of 'weekly' workers. I am sure it would require a real scrub-down of available skillsets and a look at how to allocate resources in a more strategic manner...
 
Pencil me in as one of those guys who has worked and raced on the same weekend. On a typical EMRA race weekend I could be found as Chief of Tech in the morning, and on grid in the afternoon. Sometimes I also acted as Pace Car Driver, Race Chief, Head Cook and Bottle Washer and whatever else needed to be done. Between times I was out on track. A typical race day started with us (the wife and I) getting there as the gates opened and usually being the last people off the property at night. Easily a twelve plus hour day with no rest, not counting the administrative prep in the days/weeks leading up to the event.

I got a nominal stipend that usually covered gas for the van. I paid list price for entries just like everybody else. Discovering at the end of my tenure that most people thought I was racing for free was very illuminating. I just did it to give back to an organization filled with people who were/are my friends.

During the course of race morning it meant that if stragglers showed up in Tech late and had any issues that required my attention they might have to wait if I was scheduled to be out on track. Sometimes this resulted in people being pissed off because they thought it was their right to do so. Occasionally it resulted in me missing a practice or qualifying session. Heaven help me if the car needed any attention beyond routine things during the day. (Fortunately, I drive a Miata, so that isn't an issue. :D )

I did all of that for five years straight. Although I loved the job, the opportunity to talk with and help people, I got burned out by it.

Club Racing needs its volunteers to survive. The pool of volunteers is getting smaller and smaller and they are getting burned out. The nature of the entrant is changing to one of customer with the related sense of entitlements, and I do not like that. I plan to race in WDCR this year and I will go and volunteer if the time is available, because club racing needs all of our help to show and go.
 
This thread raises a lot of interesting points, many of which need no elaboration. That being said there is a lot to be gained by "giving back" to the club. I've worked the odd corner over the years and it certainly made me appreciate the effort our F&C folks put in each weekend. :happy204: And I'll go +1 on the "it's interesting what you can learn about driving by standing on a corner and watching the really good drivers go through it"!

But there are other ways that you can volunteer that are rewarding and educational as well. Volunteer to teach at a drivers school is at the top of my list. The more instructors there are, the higher the quality of instruction in general because of more 1 on 1 time available to the students. The bonus is that most people find that trying to teach something to someone else usually results in a better understanding of the subject by the teacher! :) And there is the immense satisfaction of watching someone else do something well that you taught them! This has happened to me time and time again and it never gets old. There is also the flip side of this, those students who either need more instruction before being given a license to race; it is the instructor's call in most cases and it is tough to tell that wide-eyed student that they're NOT ready. :014: That sucks but it's for everyone's benefit. Or the students for whom OSB (other sports beckon). These are all very important responsibilities for driving instructors. If any of you have ever been on track with someone who really didn't belong out there and wondered who the hell let them through drivers school, then you understand. If you volunteer to teach, here's your chance to keep that from happening to someone else (or yourself down the road!).

There are other specialties that always need help, such as Tech, Sound Control, Registration, etc. I think we as racers tend to get tunnel vision once we arrive at the track and sometimes don't understand or appreciate all that it takes to put on an event. After 5 years of putting on the Production Car Festival at VIR in October, which is merely one race group of a much larger race weekend, I have a new found apprecation of what it takes to put on a successful weekend for the racers.

After 15 years of driving, I've decided to enter the SIT (Stewards in Training) program. I've always wanted to see what went on behind the scenes at the races from the Stewards' perspective. For so many years I've heard comments from drivers like how "Steward so and so is a no-good, rotten, clueless SOB" and by entering the SIT program and working toward becoming one of those no-good rotten, clueless SOBs maybe I can make future events better. Who knows.

In sum, nobody should be forced to volunteer at any event, IMHO. Working corners for novice permit holders is more of an educational component in my mind, so that is a different situation. But there is a lot to be gained for drivers to work events and it helps ensure that the club will sustain through this difficult economy. Most of us could scratch off one or two events a year and use those weekends to help out the club that we all enjoy so much.

Just my $0.02,

MC
 
>> After 15 years of driving, I've decided to enter the SIT (Stewards in Training) program.

I'm enrolled in the Steward Haters In Training program. It's new, started by a disgruntled group of drivers from the New Orleans area (the NO Steward Haters In Training). Other chapters include Ohio (OH) and Denver/I-25/PanAm (DIP).

K
 
Knestis said:
>> After 15 years of driving, I've decided to enter the SIT (Stewards in Training) program.

I'm enrolled in the Steward Haters In Training program. It's new, started by a disgruntled group of drivers from the New Orleans area (the NO Steward Haters In Training). Other chapters include Ohio (OH) and Denver/I-25/PanAm (DIP).

K
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Now that's funny!!! :023:

See ya at the track (hopefully not as a Steward...ha, ha)

MC
 
Kirk, are you taking over my job of being a wise ass??

My SIL, Karen Peterson (Grid chief NER), calls it the Stewards Helper In Training.
 
Greg Amy said:
+ eleventybillion for all of that. Again.

It's gotten to the point now where you're not only getting a lot of VOLUNTEER burnout, you're even starting to see entrant/competitor burnout. That, right there, should be a big ole neon sign to the organizers.
Click to expand...

Except that when it comes time to set the schedules - the masses don't want to give up a weekend. MARRS races once/month at Summit Point from April to October and that's exactly what our drivers want us to do - and we support (so far) that level of participation.

Drop/add a race at NHIS or LMP and it won't have much impact on our car count because NEDIV isn't a single body - it's tri-polar: New England (NHIS/LMP), DC (SPR) and the West (WGI/NL). There isn't that much cross-over and if you slash the schedule by fifty percent, DC drivers aren't going to travel enmasse to Lime Rock and MA-based drivers aren't going to travel enmasse to Summit Point. The only winners will be Pocono and NJMP.

Now, if you want to cut the burnout on workers - drop Nationals. Allocate Runoff-paying events the same way we do Nationals (i.e. one per track), make it a normal weekend and let EVERYBODY play. That would cut out almost 25% of the events immediately (8 Nationals out of 35 races total in NEDIV).
 
Dave
Where do you think NASA would get their volunteers?

The majority of volunteers are not racecar driver want a bees.
There are a limited number of workers, most don't do it for the gifts or money, they have a passion for the sport just like you and me.
I find in funny that many use the excuse that they are too busy, sorry bad excuse.
Most weekends I have three cars on the track and I still found time to be a racechair, pacecar driver, gas pump jockey and school instructor, just to name a few.
At the enduro at NHMS I drove the first half of the race, got out and manned the pacecar for the rest of the race.
I do this because I want to race and if someone dosen't step up there will be no racing.
Have you ever notice how many of the same workers you see at NHMS, LRP, NJMP or the Glen? When will they reach burnout?
We need new blood, now!
NER has lost our chief of timing and scoring, after three years of looking for a replacement, we have no one! Where do we find someone? Take it from someone who knows, they are not on Craigs list!
I know, it's not your problem, well, guess what, it is.

Jerry
 
Jerry,

As someone who has volunteered on many levels, I want to ask that you take a step back. In your short tenure in your position you have taken on a real 'us against them' attitude that can foster inside the local committees when two sides of an issue aren't well represented.

How about we change the direction and really try and come up some solutions. Lets lay out YOUR specific needs and see if we can help you solve them.

Telling people that they can't be too busy isn't accurate nor is it productive. People give their reasons, let's address them and come up with solutions instead of shouting them down.
 
When I am at the track, I want to be there as a racer. It is my mini-vacatiion from life and that is what I want and need. I dreamed about doing this for a long time before I could afford to actually do it. I would hope that those involved in putting on the race have the same desire that I do and that they are enjoying themselves too.

That said I haven't forgotten that this is a volunteer organization so I serve on my local BOD. So, while I am not standing on a corner station in 100+ degree weather I am doing my part to see that my club make good financial decisions and promotes Solo and Club Racing programs that work for the members we serve.

For me the SCCA represents an opportunity to be involved in something that is bigger than yourself. There are many ways to serve and make it better. It could be on a corner station or in an administrative function. Both are important.

Great conversation!
 
GBugg said:
I love working the corners - especially on a National w/e or a vintage race. These days - at least in the SEDiv - most host regions are paying enough to cover a hotel room for the weekend and providing meals. The gas is really the only expense.

I strongly encourage it! After all, it's the 2nd best seat in the house!
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What regions pay workers? We get a free lunch, and maybe a dinner on Friday night on a 3 day weekend?

If SCCA is paying their workers, then they (workers) are whores. If I was a driver in a region that paid their workers, I would have to assume that some of your entry fee is going to pay for the workers that are out on the track watching your butt.

I started out as a "worker" in 1977 when I started out flagging. I went through drivers school in 1992 and have been racing off and on since then. I volunteer (again I said VOLUNTEER) as a worker because I love the sport, and friendships that I have through the SCCA.

There are other groups that pay their "workers" and you get what you pay for.
 
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I've got an odd perspective since I grew up with my Dad working at Riverside, so I'm like a legacy worker. Worker parties at the Shakey's on Iowa. Nothing funnier than some drunk flagger in a white cowboy hat from SFR blowing his whistle and yelling "Everybody out of the pool."

Then I ran road rallies for years where the group was small and we traded off working thru the year. I moved to Solo and Rallycross where everyone works. Now I'm racing and the split between workers and drivers reminds me of a junior high dance. Ewww, they have cooties. I just wasn't prepared for such an us and them feeling at my first race. Hey, I'm one of you, really.

I agree that the race schedule doesn't help. Take a look at the NASA Great Lakes schedule, they run once a month pretty much the 2nd weekend of the month. Compare that to SCCA schedule. We've got a bunch of races jammed up a the beginning of the year and again at the end of the year. Nothing in the summer.

So as a driver who might want to work I'm having trouble making it work. I'd have to be gone two weekends in a row if I wanted to run one weekend and work another. That's simply not going to happen. Like someone else said, if I am going to take that kind of heat at home I'm damn well going to be driving.

Crap, that gives me an idea, I should work the NASA races in June, July and Aug when SCCA doesn't have jack on the schedule.

One problem with volunteering on a weekend when I race is that while I do tend to have a lot of down time I can't be sure. If I commit to work and the car breaks, what happens then? I realize that any time people can spare to work helps but is it really any help if you can't be sure they will show up? I suppose if 10 people volunteered and 6 showed up it all works out, but what if only 2 show up? In the long run is it worth the hassle for a couple of workers?

I take my hat off to anyone who has the energy to be Superman on a race weekend. But that's not me. It takes me most of a week to recover from a race weekend as it is. You can insult me if it makes you feel better but it's not going to change my situation.

Long story short, we're barking up the wrong tree if we think drivers are going to provide a big pool of workers. If they had extra time or money they'd spend on the race car. Let's face it, most of us are idiots who would spend every second and dime on the car if we didn't have someone with self control stopping us.

One idea might be to contact drivers whose license is expiring and see if they want to stay involved. Those are people who want to be involved but maybe just don't quite have the time or money to dump into a car.
 
I am posting this for Leigh McBride

Andy Bettencourt says:
How about we change the direction and really try and come up some solutions. Lets lay out YOUR specific needs and see if we can help you solve them.

Telling people that they can't be too busy isn't accurate nor is it productive. People give their reasons, let's address them and come up with solutions instead of shouting them down.

What Andy says! I've been reading this thread with interest. I am one of the Co-Chiefs of Flagging and Communications for NER. I presented some information at the NER annual meeting last weekend on our flagger numbers (recruitment and retention). The numbers and trends are pretty dismal, but they are what they are, and we need to find productive solutions. This is not a problem specific to NER but rather exists through SCCA. No region seems to have been able to come up with a complete "fix". But I'd like to share my take on the situation with you. After all, you (drivers) are the reason we're around!

We realize that many factors influence whether an individual will choose to come flagging on any given day or weekend. People may want to spend time with their families, have responsibilities at home or work, have other interests, or not be able to afford to make the trip. These are all perfectly valid reasons. Most of these variables are out of the Flag Chief's hands. The one thing we can control is whether they have a good enough time flagging so that if they have the opportunity to flag, they will want to flag. I personally do not suggest or support that drivers augment our flagging pool on weekends they are racing. Most drivers don't want to be flaggers (even on their non-racing weekends) and that is fine, I have no problem with that. We all have our own interests. But­-and this is a big but­-I know there is a pool of drivers out there, however small, who want to and can (and some do) flag on some of their non-racing weekends, as they are able. We have about 5 drivers who put on their flagging hats when they aren't racing and they are valued members of our community.

Recruiting new flaggers is a difficult task. Our best recruitment tool continues to be the experienced flagger who brings a friend, family member, neighbor or co-worker along. What I am proposing is that drivers join us in recruiting new flaggers as they are able. I'm not talking about crew or spouses coming out to work a session or two (that's not fair to the drivers and doesn't really help the flaggers out much). I'm talking about having drivers bring, the way so many of us flaggers have, a friend, neighbor or co-worker to the track specifically to flag (or bring themselves on a non-racing weekend). A couple of drivers have already done this for us, but we need more. If only 2% of the 700 drivers in NER brought one new person to the track just to flag, we would consider that a huge success. That would give us 14 new flaggers in one season, which is a lot. Last year we had 19 new flaggers all season, 14 more would almost double that. It would then be our responsibility, as flaggers, to do what we can to make them want to come back again and again.

Leigh



Leigh McBride
Co-Chief, Flagging & Communications
New England Region
[email protected]
 
Leigh (via Dick?) - Good ideas! Which makes me think of yet another variation of that.

Several of "us drivers" noted above that we don't want to flag on our 'off' weekends because of time and money. It's reasonable to expect that those limitations also apply to volunteers as well. So there's something that "us drivers" can do to at least address the latter.

Every time I tow to the track - every time - I have at least one empty seat in my Excursion. Sometimes three or four. Further, I always cover the accommodations for my friends/crew and I usually have at least a floor in my hotel room for a bedroll, if not an opportunity of an empty bed in a double room. And, I bet I'm not alone. There is absolutely no reason why that space - which costs nothing extra - shouldn't be made available to volunteer F&C folks, so that at least they don't have to drive themselves and pay for their own fuel and hotels.

So, one opportunity for us to help is to devise some kind of "ride/hotel share" system, where competitors can make those spaces available for our volunteers. I don't have any concrete suggestions for this - the idea just popped up after reading Leigh's note - but if we can address the costs factor for our volunteers I'd suggest the time factor may work itself out...

GA
 
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