Family in racing
- Thread starter StephF
- Start date
From 1991 through 1993 my sons & I raced Karts. We all three raced 100cc Sprint Karts. They raced Yamaha heavy at 340 pounds & I raced Senior Sportsman .6 diameter restrictor at 320 pounds. Ya, I weighed 175 pounds at the time & came off track at 321 pounds. Anyway they liked to dish out $hit about how slow my class was & on Saturday when we were all practicing during open track time they would whack me from behind then drive around usually with some sort of gesture. They turned times of 1:42 & I turned times of 1:45. Finall I had enough of their $hit. I had a non-restrictor motor built, put the motor on the Kart with some wider rear tires. The next Saturday I made sure I was on track when they arrived. When I came in they came over asking if I had a new pipe.........Yada, yada, yada...... You got it guys. 
I waited untill they went out for their second session & I followed. As I outbraked & passed them one at a time going into a corner I'm sure their eyes were 
I parked the Kart & loaded up. WORK finished for the day because I had already completed some qualifying laps & knew if I did the same times on Sunday they were in deep $hit. 
They came over & we shot the bull for a while & they both had big ol smiles the whole time. Sunday after qualifying I was 2nd, one of them was 5th & one 7th. A couple of the other regular Yamaha heavy guys came over & asked if I was going to do heavy on a regular basis. To which I smiled & never responded. Can ya all figure the finish of this little true life story. Sons became very quite about Dads slow class & I never raced Yamaha heavy again. Point was made & they didn't whack their Father any longer while we all were on track. Do ya call that being respectful ? 
I waited untill they went out for their second session & I followed. As I outbraked & passed them one at a time going into a corner I'm sure their eyes were I parked the Kart & loaded up. WORK finished for the day because I had already completed some qualifying laps & knew if I did the same times on Sunday they were in deep $hit. They came over & we shot the bull for a while & they both had big ol smiles the whole time. Sunday after qualifying I was 2nd, one of them was 5th & one 7th. A couple of the other regular Yamaha heavy guys came over & asked if I was going to do heavy on a regular basis. To which I smiled & never responded. Can ya all figure the finish of this little true life story. Sons became very quite about Dads slow class & I never raced Yamaha heavy again. Point was made & they didn't whack their Father any longer while we all were on track. Do ya call that being respectful ? 
RSTPerformance
New member
Funks-
As my mother was so nice to mention my brother and I have been competing for our entire lives... And we grew "Closer" and all that sappy crap...
But in reality...
We have. In our ski racing we really cared about beating the other person by one position. We wanted the other one to be almoast as successful as us but not quite. This was because we really couldn't help each other during the race, it wasn't a team effort, but more of a brotherly competition. However in Automobile Racing we have really put the competition aside many times and concentrated on the "team" effort. Being a winning team has been far more important to us than either individual winning. Our crew has put a lot of effort into helping both of us and I know that they would not deal to well with us taking each other out race after race.
We both know that deep down inside either one of us could win a race or if not win do as well as the other person, it really depends on the circumstances. For the most part one car has always been faster than the other (I am posting but it is the truth Stephens car has always been faster as we built up one car at a time). If one car is not faster then one is having a problem or two… that’s how it always seems to work out. We switch cars often and/or run enduro's and our lap times are within hundredths, not thousandths so we don’t have much to prove to one another, and for whatever reason maybe cause we are twins nobody seems to notice who wins, just that a “Blethen” wins.
On the track:
When/If the cars are equal our efforts on the track really are focused on making at least one of us win. We would rather finish 1st and 3rd than fight each other to finish 2nd and 3rd. This doesn’t mean however that if one of us makes a mistake they won’t be passed… It sorta works like this… I won’t screw us both to get passed you, but if I can do it without “f”ing up both our chances at winning then it will be me that you are helping win!!!
However If/when we are both alone on the track and fighting for position wont effect anything in the overall race then watch out, a battle will come!!!
Contact on the track:
My brother and I have been known to get a bit close, however it has always been all in an effort to help one another. For example: Bump Drafting or even pushing one another through a turn to give a little boost past someone they are running side by side with (No Carlson that isn’t nitros in Stephens car, its Raymond’s bumper !!! Anyway I digress… Be sure that you both have an understanding of each others acceptable driving styles. Many times it is much more fun to run with someone you can trust and of whom you know what you can/cannot do, make sure you don’t break that trust!!! Oh also if you can remember back to the Brian and John Wall days in SSGT… Sometimes the Stewards don’t like to much contact even though it can be a blast to smash up some free brand new cars!!!
Accidents Part 1:
Accidents can be tough, I have seen Stephen get hit by other drivers and it really really pisses me off, even though it might have helped me gain another position. You have to somehow channel that anger and not get yourself into trouble on the track. Off the track, well that is another story, I would recommend letting the driver who had the issue deal with it themselves however I do admit I have been known to say a few words to plenty of people that have made stupid moves on myself, my brother, and my father ever since I was crawling from pit space to pit space.
Accidents part 2:
Stephen has been in I think one bad accident, and I was certainly worried, but I didn’t see an ambulance or him sitting in the car lap after lap, so I wasn’t to worried, but more mad at the situation. I also know that if it is something that needs my immediate attention the crew will signal to me to come in. It the crew is still on pit wall, then they still want me to give it my all, and my crew has become part of the family also, so I trust their judgment.
Working on the cars:
That’s hard, it is a lot of work as some have mentioned above. Also the fact that your cars are different may or may not add to it.
Radios:
We got them last year, but never used them racing with each other... This year we will have them and it should be interesting to say the least... The cameras will be set up to record the conversations!!!
Ok so I tried to sum up a bunch of it, but I am sure that I missed a lot also (Not possible to cover everthing that you will learn)... The big thing is that we made a commitment that we were going to compete as a TEAM rather than as individuals. We have never had to act upon Team orders, however we have had them in place for a "just in case." This set up has worked very well. Niether one of us ever gets upset if the other one wins, as together we have succedded in something as it is all a Team effort. Suprisingly we have never been in a fight/argument of any "on track" issues (Off the track issues is another story).
All of this sounds like we don't care about beating each other... I guess that is the wrong way to paint the picture as well, as the team is divided on who helps who and bets are placed on every race, however in the end it is/was a team effort.
Raymond "Never expect to beat your teamate, cause when you do you will be really happy, and if you always beat your teamate and you happen to loose one day, realize its cause they ran a dam good race!!!" Blethen
PS: You should be able to tell quickly if the competition will work out or not, if it wont, then be sure to change things so that it doesn't effect anything back home!!!
As my mother was so nice to mention my brother and I have been competing for our entire lives... And we grew "Closer" and all that sappy crap...
But in reality...
We have. In our ski racing we really cared about beating the other person by one position. We wanted the other one to be almoast as successful as us but not quite. This was because we really couldn't help each other during the race, it wasn't a team effort, but more of a brotherly competition. However in Automobile Racing we have really put the competition aside many times and concentrated on the "team" effort. Being a winning team has been far more important to us than either individual winning. Our crew has put a lot of effort into helping both of us and I know that they would not deal to well with us taking each other out race after race.
We both know that deep down inside either one of us could win a race or if not win do as well as the other person, it really depends on the circumstances. For the most part one car has always been faster than the other (I am posting but it is the truth Stephens car has always been faster as we built up one car at a time). If one car is not faster then one is having a problem or two… that’s how it always seems to work out. We switch cars often and/or run enduro's and our lap times are within hundredths, not thousandths so we don’t have much to prove to one another, and for whatever reason maybe cause we are twins nobody seems to notice who wins, just that a “Blethen” wins.
On the track:
When/If the cars are equal our efforts on the track really are focused on making at least one of us win. We would rather finish 1st and 3rd than fight each other to finish 2nd and 3rd. This doesn’t mean however that if one of us makes a mistake they won’t be passed… It sorta works like this… I won’t screw us both to get passed you, but if I can do it without “f”ing up both our chances at winning then it will be me that you are helping win!!!
However If/when we are both alone on the track and fighting for position wont effect anything in the overall race then watch out, a battle will come!!!
Contact on the track:
My brother and I have been known to get a bit close, however it has always been all in an effort to help one another. For example: Bump Drafting or even pushing one another through a turn to give a little boost past someone they are running side by side with (No Carlson that isn’t nitros in Stephens car, its Raymond’s bumper
!!! Anyway I digress… Be sure that you both have an understanding of each others acceptable driving styles. Many times it is much more fun to run with someone you can trust and of whom you know what you can/cannot do, make sure you don’t break that trust!!! Oh also if you can remember back to the Brian and John Wall days in SSGT… Sometimes the Stewards don’t like to much contact even though it can be a blast to smash up some free brand new cars!!!Accidents Part 1:
Accidents can be tough, I have seen Stephen get hit by other drivers and it really really pisses me off, even though it might have helped me gain another position. You have to somehow channel that anger and not get yourself into trouble on the track. Off the track, well that is another story, I would recommend letting the driver who had the issue deal with it themselves however I do admit I have been known to say a few words to plenty of people that have made stupid moves on myself, my brother, and my father ever since I was crawling from pit space to pit space.
Accidents part 2:
Stephen has been in I think one bad accident, and I was certainly worried, but I didn’t see an ambulance or him sitting in the car lap after lap, so I wasn’t to worried, but more mad at the situation. I also know that if it is something that needs my immediate attention the crew will signal to me to come in. It the crew is still on pit wall, then they still want me to give it my all, and my crew has become part of the family also, so I trust their judgment.
Working on the cars:
That’s hard, it is a lot of work as some have mentioned above. Also the fact that your cars are different may or may not add to it.
Radios:
We got them last year, but never used them racing with each other... This year we will have them and it should be interesting to say the least... The cameras will be set up to record the conversations!!!
Ok so I tried to sum up a bunch of it, but I am sure that I missed a lot also (Not possible to cover everthing that you will learn)... The big thing is that we made a commitment that we were going to compete as a TEAM rather than as individuals. We have never had to act upon Team orders, however we have had them in place for a "just in case." This set up has worked very well. Niether one of us ever gets upset if the other one wins, as together we have succedded in something as it is all a Team effort. Suprisingly we have never been in a fight/argument of any "on track" issues (Off the track issues is another story).
All of this sounds like we don't care about beating each other... I guess that is the wrong way to paint the picture as well, as the team is divided on who helps who and bets are placed on every race, however in the end it is/was a team effort.
Raymond "Never expect to beat your teamate, cause when you do you will be really happy, and if you always beat your teamate and you happen to loose one day, realize its cause they ran a dam good race
!!!" BlethenPS: You should be able to tell quickly if the competition will work out or not, if it wont, then be sure to change things so that it doesn't effect anything back home!!!
RSTPerformance
New member
Just to emfasize the TEAM effort vs. when the green flag drops it all for one... We don't treat it as the "all for one" way, and because of this I think that it has been very successful TEAM venture. If you both have the expectations of winning someone will get upset/disapointed at every race, and as a result I would suspect you will have a few bad days.
Raymond "I can remember after one of my brothers victory's jumping out of my car on pit lane to go ride with him... We put a lot of effort into his car for that victory and it ment a lot to both of us... I think I finished in the top 5 also, but that didn't matter much" Blethen
Raymond "I can remember after one of my brothers victory's jumping out of my car on pit lane to go ride with him... We put a lot of effort into his car for that victory and it ment a lot to both of us... I think I finished in the top 5 also, but that didn't matter much" Blethen
StephF
New member
Hey thanks for all the good input everyone. Matt, I laughed out loud at some of your list! (Add to that one, never buy a racing seat in the dead of winter...it's humbling!) And the handling issue, already been through that one!
A couple seasons ago, I ran the ITB Opel at NHIS. It was handling like a pig. Back end kept swapping around, it was doing wierd things to me in turns, and my times were off by a good second or more. Through the oval, it was making horrible howling sounds. Definately not normal for was it usually a forgiving, neutral car. I couldn't tell if the track was slippery that day, or if it was just me.
After the race I came in, rather discouraged at my poor performance, and mentioned to Ed that the car felt like a pig. His response:"Well you were driving like a skirt today." (someday, I'll share the whole skirt story, it's a family joke now) The message was clear: Don't blame the car, shut up and drive harder.
We loaded the car and went home. That week, he took it over to the shop we use to put it up on a lift and do a nut & bolt and fluid check. He comes back a couple hours later, his eyes wide, and says to me:"How the hell did you drive that thing?" My response was, "I told you it felt like a pig. What was wrong with it?" He replied, "The right front balljoint was broken, and being held on by a small lip on one edge. I wiggled the wheel and it broke off and jammed up under the fender. How the HELL did you DRIVE that thing??"
Ummm.....I could give a response that showcased my bravery in the face of death, but the real answer was that I was too pigheaded to park it after half distance....
I haven't liked the oval very much since that event either.
Anyway, radios sound like a good thing to have. Ed doesn't want to hear chatter during the race. I don't mind it (with the exception of the time that sister Sue decided to SING to me while I was on the backside of the track at Summit during a 12 hour....
h34r: )
The one area that worried me was the whole driver coaching thing. Matt, I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned that you have to be diplomatic, because the other driver doesn't want to hear that they are slow, or bad drivers. We've talked about that already, especially since your post. We have agreed to wait until we've both come down from being in the car, and approach it from a helpful standpoint rather than a combative one. I'll gladly accept any help on lines, techniques, etc as long as it isn't presented in a critical fashion
(Dave, sounds like you and your wife haven't been able to do this one together. Any chance a non-family member can coach her? I'd love to see your face if she was to draft up on you and pass you someday
)
And from the father/son input, I can say that I'm glad I'm racing against my husband and not a child of mine. (I don't have to worry about ever doing that!) Age and experience overcome youth & enthusiam any time.
NER folks, remember Chuck & Ryan Noonan? They had Hondas, CRX's I think (can't remember which class they were in now) At NHIS, Chuck was in 1st, Ryan 2nd as they went through the oval, I think on the last lap. Ryan was drafting Chuck and setting up to pass him into 3. Chuck brushed the brakes enough to trigger the brake lights, and Ryan stabbed his. Got him slightly crossed up, and Chuck squirted ahead and won. Afterwords in impound, Chuck was chortling, and Ryan was looking somewhat abashed at being duped. Then they hugged each other. That was cool.
And since those days I've always wanted to race against my own family. We've talked about it for a while, and now we are finally going to get to do it. I'm really looking forward to this season. We probably won't have my car ready until the triple at NHIS on Memorial Day. But I hope that I can run somewhat of a full season, depending on my work schedule.
To the Blethen team: sounds like you guys helped each other go faster. Team work sounds like fun when it's done right. And the only way I can tell you apart has been Red=Ray. And yet on here, you tell me that you swap cars too. Well, we have Brangelina and Tomkat, maybe we should just rename you guys 'Raeve'
And Dick, who is your teammate? I haven't really followed A all that much in recent years. How did he like getting times and heckling from you at LRP? Were you getting the Queen Elizabeth wave from him every time he passed you as you sat in the lefthander?? (I'd do that!)
A couple seasons ago, I ran the ITB Opel at NHIS. It was handling like a pig. Back end kept swapping around, it was doing wierd things to me in turns, and my times were off by a good second or more. Through the oval, it was making horrible howling sounds. Definately not normal for was it usually a forgiving, neutral car. I couldn't tell if the track was slippery that day, or if it was just me.
After the race I came in, rather discouraged at my poor performance, and mentioned to Ed that the car felt like a pig. His response:"Well you were driving like a skirt today." (someday, I'll share the whole skirt story, it's a family joke now) The message was clear: Don't blame the car, shut up and drive harder.
We loaded the car and went home. That week, he took it over to the shop we use to put it up on a lift and do a nut & bolt and fluid check. He comes back a couple hours later, his eyes wide, and says to me:"How the hell did you drive that thing?" My response was, "I told you it felt like a pig. What was wrong with it?" He replied, "The right front balljoint was broken, and being held on by a small lip on one edge. I wiggled the wheel and it broke off and jammed up under the fender. How the HELL did you DRIVE that thing??"
Ummm.....I could give a response that showcased my bravery in the face of death, but the real answer was that I was too pigheaded to park it after half distance....
I haven't liked the oval very much since that event either.Anyway, radios sound like a good thing to have. Ed doesn't want to hear chatter during the race. I don't mind it (with the exception of the time that sister Sue decided to SING to me while I was on the backside of the track at Summit during a 12 hour....
h34r: ) The one area that worried me was the whole driver coaching thing. Matt, I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned that you have to be diplomatic, because the other driver doesn't want to hear that they are slow, or bad drivers. We've talked about that already, especially since your post. We have agreed to wait until we've both come down from being in the car, and approach it from a helpful standpoint rather than a combative one. I'll gladly accept any help on lines, techniques, etc as long as it isn't presented in a critical fashion
(Dave, sounds like you and your wife haven't been able to do this one together. Any chance a non-family member can coach her? I'd love to see your face if she was to draft up on you and pass you someday
)And from the father/son input, I can say that I'm glad I'm racing against my husband and not a child of mine. (I don't have to worry about ever doing that!) Age and experience overcome youth & enthusiam any time.
NER folks, remember Chuck & Ryan Noonan? They had Hondas, CRX's I think (can't remember which class they were in now) At NHIS, Chuck was in 1st, Ryan 2nd as they went through the oval, I think on the last lap. Ryan was drafting Chuck and setting up to pass him into 3. Chuck brushed the brakes enough to trigger the brake lights, and Ryan stabbed his. Got him slightly crossed up, and Chuck squirted ahead and won. Afterwords in impound, Chuck was chortling, and Ryan was looking somewhat abashed at being duped. Then they hugged each other. That was cool.
And since those days I've always wanted to race against my own family. We've talked about it for a while, and now we are finally going to get to do it. I'm really looking forward to this season. We probably won't have my car ready until the triple at NHIS on Memorial Day. But I hope that I can run somewhat of a full season, depending on my work schedule.
To the Blethen team: sounds like you guys helped each other go faster. Team work sounds like fun when it's done right. And the only way I can tell you apart has been Red=Ray. And yet on here, you tell me that you swap cars too. Well, we have Brangelina and Tomkat, maybe we should just rename you guys 'Raeve'
And Dick, who is your teammate? I haven't really followed A all that much in recent years. How did he like getting times and heckling from you at LRP? Were you getting the Queen Elizabeth wave from him every time he passed you as you sat in the lefthander??
(I'd do that!)
dickita15
New member
Originally posted by StephF@Jan 27 2006, 07:23 AM
And Dick, who is your teammate? I haven't really followed A all that much in recent years. How did he like getting times and heckling from you at LRP? Were you getting the Queen Elizabeth wave from him every time he passed you as you sat in the lefthander??
[snapback]72453[/snapback]
Flower Shop Dave in the blue and white #6 rx7, and yea he loves it when I tell him what to do.
RSTPerformance
New member
Steph-
Looks like all you need is a good coach... IE: My Mom...
As for critiquing... My BROTHER AND I on our own decided before we ever sat in a racecar that we would get video cameras. We video tape just about every session, and we watch just about every session together. We don't do much critiquing at the track unless it is someplace we might only visit once, and even then we watch the video on the camera. I find it much more helpful to critique someone with actual footage... The best thing with having video in both cars is that whatever I am critiquing is what I saw, thus my camera did also. So you can see in my video, and you can see it in that drivers video, really gives you two perspectives on things. Prime example is you should have passed that guy here...
Raymond
Looks like all you need is a good coach... IE: My Mom...
As for critiquing... My BROTHER AND I on our own decided before we ever sat in a racecar that we would get video cameras. We video tape just about every session, and we watch just about every session together. We don't do much critiquing at the track unless it is someplace we might only visit once, and even then we watch the video on the camera. I find it much more helpful to critique someone with actual footage... The best thing with having video in both cars is that whatever I am critiquing is what I saw, thus my camera did also. So you can see in my video, and you can see it in that drivers video, really gives you two perspectives on things. Prime example is you should have passed that guy here...
Raymond