Fire Suits
- Thread starter Greg Amy
- Start date
Wow,
All I can say is that If I have to replace my one year old suit because of a nonsensical wording issue with the rules, I will cut up my scca membership and go run with the other crowd.
Its no wonder theres hardly anyone my age running with the scca. (26)
Us "youngsters" arent interested in politics, only racing.
All I can say is that If I have to replace my one year old suit because of a nonsensical wording issue with the rules, I will cut up my scca membership and go run with the other crowd.
Its no wonder theres hardly anyone my age running with the scca. (26)
Us "youngsters" arent interested in politics, only racing.
Ron Earp
Administrator
I think alot of us were thinking something similar. I have an old racequip suit with an SFI patch on it too...
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Yeah, well, you'd think it'd be a
to not outlaw perfectly fine fire suits overnight because the club has gotten into bed with an organization.And you are actually a young one! When I look around the paddock at the ripe age of 38 I know that I'm sometimes one of the younger guys around. Not good for the SCCA.
Andy Bettencourt
Super Moderator
So it doesn't have a FIA cert on it either?
RSTPerformance
New member
andy stop playing stupid... OMP suits are FIA approved. Within the last couple years they went from the 1986 spec to the 2000 spec so you won't find them on the Internet still for sale with the 1986 spec... But many of us budgeted racers that feel safety is important and bought an expensive suite a few years ago now find ourselves yet again throwing away more safe equipment that we cannot afford to replace. Many of these suites do exist without SFI flameproof patches. I have no idea where it can be proven that the suite is safer than some $100.00 piece of crap suit but I bet it can be proven if it needs to be.. I have e-mailed Bob Introne, and I am sure as the head of the BOD and as my area rep that he will get back to me. Let's hope this gets resolved before more members get turned off from SCCA.
Raymond
Raymond
JeffYoung
New member
Ray, settle down. Andy's not being stupid, he's asking (me and Ron) a question - what FIA cert does the OMP suit (I used to have a Trend, Ron does now) carry?
The rule allows for the SFI cert AND one FIA cert. I believe -- Andy correct me if I am wrong -- Andy was simply asking if the OMP suit carries the allowed FIA cert and is, ergo, legal.
I'm going to check mine now.
The rule allows for the SFI cert AND one FIA cert. I believe -- Andy correct me if I am wrong -- Andy was simply asking if the OMP suit carries the allowed FIA cert and is, ergo, legal.
I'm going to check mine now.
RSTPerformance
New member
They are now 8856-2000... A few years ago they were 1986/1986. I am guessing that was probably the maximum FIA spec at the time. Anyone know when the specs were changed with FIA?
JeffYoung
New member
Raymond, here's the rule:
All suits shall bear an SFI 3.2A/1 or higher certification label or FIA 8856-2000 homologation.
My OMP Trend was manufactured in 2002 and carries teh FIA 8856-2000 homologation. While I have replaced it with a newer SFI rated Sparco, it would be good to go this year...but for the hole in the ass.
Raymond, your suit -- what FIA cert does it carry?
Maybe the sky is not falling.
All suits shall bear an SFI 3.2A/1 or higher certification label or FIA 8856-2000 homologation.
My OMP Trend was manufactured in 2002 and carries teh FIA 8856-2000 homologation. While I have replaced it with a newer SFI rated Sparco, it would be good to go this year...but for the hole in the ass.
Raymond, your suit -- what FIA cert does it carry?
Maybe the sky is not falling.
RSTPerformance
New member
mine is a FIA NORME 1986/1986... I think that you will find it is what most people whom have the issue have.
It looks like the FIA made it a regulation on 6/30/05 when I do a search of the regulations on the FIA website. I can not fing any info on the 1986/1986 requirements. What I really think is important is to find the actual data on the different specs. Bob and or the CRB has to have them if they made the rule and I am sure that they will share the specs... I will e-mail them rather than search for hours and come up emptyhanded....
It also appears most pro racing overseas requires the new spec while amature series allow what I have...
Raymond
It looks like the FIA made it a regulation on 6/30/05 when I do a search of the regulations on the FIA website. I can not fing any info on the 1986/1986 requirements. What I really think is important is to find the actual data on the different specs. Bob and or the CRB has to have them if they made the rule and I am sure that they will share the specs... I will e-mail them rather than search for hours and come up emptyhanded....
It also appears most pro racing overseas requires the new spec while amature series allow what I have...
Raymond
Raymond,
The 6/30/05 date is the date that the current spec was last revised. You can look at the spec and the changes are in bold.
Matt Rowe, said "2001"....not sure how he knows that but the "2000" suffix in the spec would imply that the spec was drafted in 2000. Perhaps the suits became available in 2001.
I have an expensive OMP suit that was manufactured in 2003 it carries the 2000 spec. F--- the SFI, as long as I continue to have the option I will avoid buying products that bear the SFI label.
On another note, you asked in an earilier post on this thread what organization I race with. I race with VARA. Unfortunately (for you) all their events are in California, Nevada and Arizona. They are a Vintage racing group, but not your stereotypical parade, cars are the stars group. They have real wheel to wheel racing. Some run groups are a little more in the vintage spirit with the safety bubble stuff, but only because their cars are almost irreplaceable. The remaining 75% of the run groups are as competitive as anyone else. I'd go as far to say that anyone looking to race competitively in So-Cal with a vintage legal car that is racing with the SCCA is nuts for doing so. NorPac and SFR seem to have a good program with plenty of competition--Cal Club and SoPac, not so much....sure there are exceptions but not many, that is why they are exceptions. If I offend any of the Cal Club or SoPac racers I am sure you are the exception
Seriously, any Cal Club or SoPac guys think they are going to come out and beat up on bunch of vintage racers come on out. I've got a cold beer and a good battle for you. #66 FProduction.
The 6/30/05 date is the date that the current spec was last revised. You can look at the spec and the changes are in bold.
Matt Rowe, said "2001"....not sure how he knows that but the "2000" suffix in the spec would imply that the spec was drafted in 2000. Perhaps the suits became available in 2001.
I have an expensive OMP suit that was manufactured in 2003 it carries the 2000 spec. F--- the SFI, as long as I continue to have the option I will avoid buying products that bear the SFI label.
On another note, you asked in an earilier post on this thread what organization I race with. I race with VARA. Unfortunately (for you) all their events are in California, Nevada and Arizona. They are a Vintage racing group, but not your stereotypical parade, cars are the stars group. They have real wheel to wheel racing. Some run groups are a little more in the vintage spirit with the safety bubble stuff, but only because their cars are almost irreplaceable. The remaining 75% of the run groups are as competitive as anyone else. I'd go as far to say that anyone looking to race competitively in So-Cal with a vintage legal car that is racing with the SCCA is nuts for doing so. NorPac and SFR seem to have a good program with plenty of competition--Cal Club and SoPac, not so much....sure there are exceptions but not many, that is why they are exceptions. If I offend any of the Cal Club or SoPac racers I am sure you are the exception
Seriously, any Cal Club or SoPac guys think they are going to come out and beat up on bunch of vintage racers come on out. I've got a cold beer and a good battle for you. #66 FProduction.
lateapex911
Super Moderator
I got my Sparco in 2003 or 2004 , and it carries the FIA 2000 patch (along with an SFI/5 patch)
If the change over occured as Matt states in 2001, it is possible that the suits carrying the FIA portion of the "Or" part of the rule are all 5 years old, or older.
If the change over occured as Matt states in 2001, it is possible that the suits carrying the FIA portion of the "Or" part of the rule are all 5 years old, or older.
Andy Bettencourt
Super Moderator
Geez Ray! Just trying to figure out if your FIA cert meets the current rule...
JeffYoung
New member
So really what we are talking about here is essentially "outlawing" suits with an FIA rating standard that is more than 21 years old (the 1986 standard), but allowing one that applies to all suits seven years or less old?
What's the shelf life on a suit anyway? I would suspect after time (mine did, although I didn't take that good care of it) you would want to replace the thing anyway due to wear, failing seems, etc.
I'm not so sure the sky is falling..........
What's the shelf life on a suit anyway? I would suspect after time (mine did, although I didn't take that good care of it) you would want to replace the thing anyway due to wear, failing seems, etc.
I'm not so sure the sky is falling..........
dickita15
New member
Which is not very old for a well cared for suit (and Jake I am not saying you said it was). It is somewhat important to remember that a lot of SCCA drivers only race 2-4 weekends a year.
We have rules to stop poorly cared for suits from being used, the age alone should not be a major factor unless they can show us where performance standards have had a massive change.
I think what annoys me the most is I know of no problem that been caused by suits with no documentation.
I think a key point you dudes are overlooking is NOT whether new stuff is certified; I think you'll find most, if not all, new stuff is either FIA or SFI certified (though I have no doubt there are exceptions).
The REAL point here is that there are a lot of folks, especially first-timers and old-timers, that show up with old(er) fire protections suits, many made prior to these regulations. Trust me: I get to see a lot of these during annual inspections, and I'd estimate that a good 50% or more of the club racers out there are not using pretty new shiny Sparco, OMP, or G-Force suits, instead choosing to use standard undies and older Nomex/Prothane/etc fire protection. Up through 10.31.07 these suits were perfectly legal to use, but with a stroke of the pen today they're all not.
What this means is that a significant portion of the SCCA Club Racing community is now going to have to spend money on fire protection that may or may not be as good as what they had.
Or, more importantly, maybe they won't... - GA
The REAL point here is that there are a lot of folks, especially first-timers and old-timers, that show up with old(er) fire protections suits, many made prior to these regulations. Trust me: I get to see a lot of these during annual inspections, and I'd estimate that a good 50% or more of the club racers out there are not using pretty new shiny Sparco, OMP, or G-Force suits, instead choosing to use standard undies and older Nomex/Prothane/etc fire protection. Up through 10.31.07 these suits were perfectly legal to use, but with a stroke of the pen today they're all not.
What this means is that a significant portion of the SCCA Club Racing community is now going to have to spend money on fire protection that may or may not be as good as what they had.
Or, more importantly, maybe they won't... - GA