Golf IV in B and Beetle in C?

When I say un-necessary brackets, it was those that held the old rear seat back, the ones on the floor that held the carpeting, the ones that held the interior trim panels, and the like, ditto for the ones that held the stock exhaust system and the exhaust shield and the like. Can the frame for the sunroof be removed?, YES, but the rear compartment shelf... NO, The driver side stock seat runners that are welded to the tunnel. YES, to faciltate replacement mountings, Audio systems may be removed in their entirety, Air bag systems maybe removed, AC System and associated brackets, Parking Brakes, mechanisms and actuating components may be removed....etc. hood and trunk latches maybe removed, etc....Again, this is how we intepreted the rules, and consequently we included brackets. Instead of cutting out the "un-necessary" brackets, we drilled out the welds, and removed the bracket.
Now I'm sure that someone can debate some the brackets that I refer. But when we built the car, in 2006, the rules stated in the section 9.1.3 B "Intent" ..... No compenent or part normally found in a stock example of a given vehicle may be disabled, alterd or removed for the purpose of obtaining any competitive advantage. As I stated in a previous discussion back prior to the 2008 edit of this statement, I / we did not gain any competitive advantage by getting the car down to the "Legal" race weight of 2350 lbs.. When the wording was changed, which I considered an error and I forwarded my concerns to the ITAC, we did not review or even considered going back and re-install any brackets that may be in question. Getting the car down to the minimum weight does not give us any competitive advantage. The primary statement of the Intent of IT rules is to restrict modifications to be useful and necessary to construct a safe race car and that is what we did.

As a side note...... What rule within the ITCS, or GCR, Permits the removal of the factory / stock seat belts?. We have always removed them, but in numerous times I have read the ITCS and GCR, I have never seen the words that state 'It is permitted to remove the factory installed seat belts" Please advise..... Thanks David Ellis-Brown
 
D. Ellis-Brown said:
As a side note...... What rule within the ITCS, or GCR, Permits the removal of the factory / stock seat belts?. We have always removed them, but in numerous times I have read the ITCS and GCR, I have never seen the words that state 'It is permitted to remove the factory installed seat belts" Please advise..... Thanks David Ellis-Brown
Click to expand...

9.1.3.D.9.e (page 365 of 2010 GCR) reads in part:

e. Front passenger seat, rear seat back, rear seat bottom cushion(s), sun visors, seat belts and their attaching hardware and bracketry may be removed.​


 
Two things:

My general rule on brackets: If it's welded, leave it. If it's bolted in and what it held can be removed, take it out if it does nothing else.

On the Beetle:

That decision was based on Curb weight and estimated potential loss. It WAS a guess, but the logic and data were sound. But also, because it was a twin to the MKIII at the time, it was in interesting case study in what people would migrate to...a heavy car that was right in the target area for pwr/weight, or a lighter car that may not be able to make weight.
 
Well there is a real ITC Beetle that was just sold by a guy in FL. Hopefully we can get an idea of the weight it hits from the new owner and verify whether it is in the right class.

As far a brackets - the caveat I have to Andy's policy is that if the bracket is NOT present on any iteration of the car on the spec line, it can be removed - welded or not. This is rare, but there are cases for instance where a beefy tow hook is added to the unibody mid life cycle which was not there the years prior. Depending on location I would consider removing that.

If the brackets for systems that are allowed to be removed are present on all cars on the spec line, and there is no specific allowance to remove the brackets, then I would leave them.
 
itcockpit2.jpg


So I can whittle out the bracket that captures the rear seat pivot? And the vertical bracket in front of the main hoop, that supported the seatbelt tensioner? And that big ol' bracket that held up the front of the back seat?

AWESOME SAUCE...!

Kirk (who isn't at minimum weight but can now get closer)
 
itrear.jpg


...and the bracket that supported the rear C-pillar cover and load area cover hardware?

This gets better and better.

K
 
Oooh! And the bracket that the original hood catch bolted to...? I probably have to leave the pieces of that, that hold up the radiator... Hmmm.

K
 
Knestis said:
So I can whittle out the bracket that captures the rear seat pivot? And the vertical bracket in front of the main hoop, that supported the seatbelt tensioner? And that big ol' bracket that held up the front of the back seat?

AWESOME SAUCE...!

Kirk (who isn't at minimum weight but can now get closer)
Click to expand...

"seat belts and their attaching hardware and bracketry may be removed."

2 schools of thought -
A. That's part of the hardware and bracketry that can be removed
-or-
B. The tensioner isn't part of the attaching hardware and you are out of compliance because you lack the tensioner.
 
jjjanos said:
"seat belts and their attaching hardware and bracketry may be removed."

2 schools of thought -
A. That's part of the hardware and bracketry that can be removed
-or-
B. The tensioner isn't part of the attaching hardware and you are out of compliance because you lack the tensioner.
Click to expand...


Actually, I would argue that the tensioner is part of the seat belt.

Here's the link to that ITC Beetle that Chris mentioned.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5001016-ITC-Beetle-F.S.-Florida

Too bad the OP edited out the list of things done to the car. Really curious about how much it weighs.
 
jjjanos said:
"seat belts and their attaching hardware and bracketry may be removed."

2 schools of thought -
A. That's part of the hardware and bracketry that can be removed
-or-
B. The tensioner isn't part of the attaching hardware and you are out of compliance because you lack the tensioner.
Click to expand...

...or C. The tensioner, which is intergral to the belt assembly, can simply be unbolted, but the bracket that's welded to the chassis has to stay.

Why is the easiest, most obvious solution not a school of thought...? Not convoluted enough...?

:blink:

K
 
Knestis said:
...or C. The tensioner, which is intergral to the belt assembly, can simply be unbolted, but the bracket that's welded to the chassis has to stay.

Why is the easiest, most obvious solution not a school of thought...? Not convoluted enough...?
Click to expand...


How did you describe that piece of metal? "...the bracket..."
So, it's a bracket.

The bracket is integral to an assembly that can be removed, n'est-ce pas?
We are allowed to remove bracketry, n'est-ce pas?
Does that bracket serve any other function?
 
yeah, could have been lighter if i didn't have to patch a sunroof and kept out the extra cage tubing. I'm sure there's some more weight to be cut, but it doesn't really matter since the car is in C and has to be ballasted up to minimum. Either way, I was pretty pumped to hear how light I was able to get it. Shows it's got potential I think. Have to see how it actually does on the track now.
 
Does anyone have the 6# harmonic balance that bolts to the cross member?? Does anyone have two horns?

If you take all of the bolts out of the car, that is what the chassis should look like, according to the rules as I have read them.

Is the big rear seat housing a part of the seat or chassis. As the Pastor says " slippery slope" . Can you cut the rear parcel shelf supports out? No IMHO/MM

David, WE are comming for you soon. Mike is going to drive the old welded up Roc in ITB. Hope to see you on the track then . PS, put all those brackets back in tho :) MM
 
Gary L said:
Come again? 2360 + 180 driver + 30 fuel = 2560. That's 200+ lbs heavier than the Golfs in ITB, right?
Click to expand...

I was working on the assumption that they would not carry the classification error over to the Beetle. 2350 spec weight works out to something like 22% hp gain. BTW - no need to finish with 30# of fuel...
 
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