Golf spec

[GTIspirit]

The 4.22 works well at very few tracks, runs the weak 5th gear too hard, too long....

The 4.25 R&P I referenced uses the stock 16V 5th gear. It is the 8V 4th gear that must be changed, as noted, because the splines on the pinion are a different size than those on the stock 16V 4th gear but the teeth are otherwise identical. Top speed with the 4.25R&P is a theoretical 120ish mph, which I think is the aero limit of the car anyhow, so I don't see how having the shorter R&P would affect top speed.

I see the 3.67 as a handicap on the 16V since the 1.8L 16V has less bottom end grunt than an 1.8L 8V which has what, a 3.89 or 3.94 R&P.

Good luck with the series, I was just asking to understand the advantages/disadvantages of the shorter R&P in a 1.8L 16V.

 

[mgyip]

I see the 3.67 as a handicap on the 16V since the 1.8L 16V has less bottom end grunt than an 1.8L 8V which has what, a 3.89 or 3.94 R&P.

In the A2 chassis, the 1.8L 8V was factory equipped (detuned?) with a 3.67 FD as was the 1.8L and 2.0L 16v. In the A2 chassis, the Rabbit GTi was equipped with either the 3.89 or 3.94 FD which helped the cars tremendously BUT VW's insistence on using a relatively short 5th gear made the cars quite buzzy and annoying at highway speeds.

IIRC, the 1.8L 16v had identical torque figures to the 1.8L 8v bretheren. However the 16v made so much more top-end torque that it gave the impression that the car was "flat" at low rpms. To experience a multi-valve engine that is truly flat when it is off-cam, drive an E30 M3 or a Mercedes 190E 2.3 16v...

 

[Flyinglizard]

VW Cup USA,

Does anyone still run a 4.25 gear?? I have not seenor heard one since Moroso, about 2001. I put a couple in ice racers to pull the tall studded tires.
FWIW, this may morph into the "VW Cup USA"
Falken and VW have replied initially and I wait for ideas from both. MM

 

[shwah]

Chiming in with the same comments I had at vortex.

Good luck with the plan, but I disagree with the justification that VWs are not competitive or attractive to race currently - especially in ITB. The A2 and A3 have proven to be very competitive, and the A1 IMO is actually a better choice at some tracks. I agree with Kirk that this could potentially weaken current fields a bit. All of these issues are likely quite regional in nature, and there is a good chance this works well in some areas and not others.

To the ITA discussion - I think the 1.8 is the way to go, as 200# is a lot to overcome, and the lower flowing 2.0 heads make it unlikely to make up the difference in hp. I think it would be fun to see what I could do with an ITA car, but now that I am moving away from CIS-E it will be hard to convert over to 16v in the future.

 

[Flyinglizard]

VW Cup USA

I have never said that the ITB cars are not competitive. You can run the same car in ITB or VW Cup. The cam change is in the future, if at all.
The days of 30 car ITB fields are gone. Wake up and look around. The racers/drivers have gone to SM. The engineers have gone to Prod. Times change.

There are two forms of motorsports, drivers' classes and engineers' classes. IT is now an engineers' class with new cars better than the old cars.
I am trying to keep the ITC cars running , the ITB cars , along with the ITA 16v cars . on the track for a reasonable cost. That is all. Dont make it more than it is.
I want the " Vw Cup" to be a racers class, not and endless $10,000 engineering problem, that IT is now.
Race what ever you want. You can leave the car on the trailer for VW Cup. MM

 

[Knestis]

>> You can leave the car on the trailer for VW Cup.

But I'd propose that we all ought to be worried about the impact on club racing more broadly, of the proliferation of niche classes, series, or "cups" - particularly when rules divulge in ways that make it difficult or impossible to cross over, or where actual events - dates on-track - start poaching off one-another.

If "Spec Golf" were a class-within-a-category, this could be avoided and could in fact help BOLSTER existing IT fields. Make an agreement to run on inexpensive tires, even define specs that are something less than balls-out IT preparation (say, no aftermarket ECUs?), put stickers on the cars in the Cup, and run among the rest of the IT crowd...? A good thing.

New rules (e.g., different weights) and class stickers, even running in the same race group at SCCA Regionals? Worrisome from the 30,000-foot view.

K

 

[lateapex911]

>> You can leave the car on the trailer for VW Cup.

But I'd propose that we all ought to be worried about the impact on club racing more broadly, of the proliferation of niche classes, series, or "cups" - particularly when rules divulge in ways that make it difficult or impossible to cross over, or where actual events - dates on-track - start poaching off one-another.

If "Spec Golf" were a class-within-a-category, this could be avoided and could in fact help BOLSTER existing IT fields. Make an agreement to run on inexpensive tires, even define specs that are something less than balls-out IT preparation (say, no aftermarket ECUs?), put stickers on the cars in the Cup, and run among the rest of the IT crowd...? A good thing.

New rules (e.g., different weights) and class stickers, even running in the same race group at SCCA Regionals? Worrisome from the 30,000-foot view.

K

Ding ding DING.

Unless you plan to run and popularize the "Cup" in NASA or elsewhere, it makes NO sense to have rules that allow/require cars to exceed the prep limitations of IT.

A major carrot to the SM ruleset is the easy double dipping into ITA with the Miatas. Lots of regions see a lot of double dipping. SF Region saw so much that they created a THIRD class called ITX. Just for any IT car (that includes SM) so they could double dip. So, in the SF region Sm drivers are triple dipping.

I know you want to include lots of models and have them be on equal footing, but once you start opening up prep rules, you've opened a Pandoras box. I think you'll be way better off keeping it simple, and leaving the outlier cars that will need extra allowances off the list.

(Second, the 30 car field comment is rather regionally accurate/not accurate. Summit on Labor Day had a HUGE ITB field. Heck a 30 car SSm fiield or a 30 car SM field is a very good turnout, even for them, these days.)

 

[Flyinglizard]

VW Cup Status

Florida region has OKed the first date of Nov 13- 15th!! I dont know if I can get my car ready.. I will if I get some takers for the first show.

Per response; It makes sense to not exclude true IT cars. I have had only one inquiry about converting an ITC car. But withthe open Vin rule ,it is not to far out of line. It seems to be a non issue today tho.
Falken tire is very interested. It will be about one week until I get to the head guy, with a decent proposal.
Florida region has OKed a run group 5, P2, (under 2.8litre)
ITB is group 6, plenty of laps if you care to double dip.
I have a rough rule set, with the weights, pretty much done. I willpost it here to get yelled at some more. Nothing is set in stone. I just want to avoid a ringer car. I have pretty good data for the 1.8 and even have found some mk 3 stuff. Tristan may have cost the mk 3 about 40 pounds tho... Basic #per CC with an RPM value.
MM