head and neck restraint required

[leggwork]

(edit: posted this before I read the rest of the thread and now see that somebody posted the text I refer to below)


there is an updated statement about Dave McPherson's death at www.bmwccaclubracing.com. He did not have a H&NR on.
bruce

Originally posted by JamesB@Dec 16 2005, 04:37 PM
Are you referring to the driver that died not of the crash but of medical condition?  I believe yes, he did have a H&N on.

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[dj10]

Originally posted by mlytle@Dec 19 2005, 10:37 PM
yo dj!
i confess, i was riding a yamaha rice rocket back in the early 80's with a full face helmet, leathers, boots and gloves in a state where helmets weren't required.  guess i am one of the oddballs who partakes in risky sports, but checks all the safety boxes doing it....

will pass on greetings to matt and dave!
we wanted to make mid-o a marrs event, but the track gave away the aug wor games date to nasa.  the new date for the wor games doesn't work with the marrs sked, so we are going back to the glenn in july.

marshall

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Got a $10.00 head wear a $10.00 helmet.
Well maybe see at the Glenn.

 

[benspeed]

Gentlemen - you get one life. A Hans is an excellent investment and you can bank that they will become mandatory. To think otherwise is to ignore the litigeous nature of our court system and the general trend in pro series.

I know everybody has heard it before but a Hans costs the same as a set of tires and I bet you can sell your Hans for more than half the cost of purchase.

You don't even notice it when you're driving except when you're backing out of a garage and you can't look all the way right or left.

I think the Isaac ought to be considered too - Baker's product is excellent also.

 

[leggwork]

any SFI 38.1 HNR ought to be considered ... if they do become mandatory, it is highly likely that only SFI compliant ones will be allowed due to possible litigation if they set the bar any lower.
cheers,
bruce

Originally posted by benspeed@Dec 21 2005, 08:54 PM
Gentlemen - you get one life. A Hans is an excellent investment and you can bank that they will become mandatory. To think otherwise is to ignore the litigeous nature of our court system and the general trend in pro series.

I know everybody has heard it before but a Hans costs the same as a set of tires and I bet you can sell your Hans for more than half the cost of purchase.

You don't even notice it when you're driving except when you're backing out of a garage and you can't look all the way right or left.

I think the Isaac ought to be considered too - Baker's product is excellent also.

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[Matt Rowe]

Originally posted by benspeed@Dec 21 2005, 03:54 PM
I know everybody has heard it before but a Hans costs the same as a set of tires and I bet you can sell your Hans for more than half the cost of purchase.

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I don't know about anyone else but I wouldn't buy a used helmet or a used set of belts. Any H&N device falls into the same category where visually you can't tell if it hasn't been overstressed at some point in it's life. So I don't think resale is a particularly good argument, especially when there are plenty of other good reasons to have one.

 

[mlytle]

Originally posted by Matt Rowe@Dec 21 2005, 11:20 PM
I don't know about anyone else but I wouldn't buy a used helmet or a used set of belts. Any H&N device falls into the same category where visually you can't tell if it hasn't been overstressed at some point in it's life. So I don't think resale is a particularly good argument, especially when there are plenty of other good reasons to have one.

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for $15 you can have a hans recertified by the company. that makes a used one a little more palatable.

 

[Greg Amy]

Whenever someone starts lecturing me about my use/non-use of safety equipment for racing/motorcycling/whatever, my immediate and terminal reaction is "If you really cared about me and my health, you wouldn't be lecturing me about the equipment I choose to use/not use, you'd be trying to convince me not to do that dangerous activity in the first place." Therefore I am convinced you really aren't that concerned that I have only one life, what you're really concerned about is "cover your ass" or trying to justify your own particular purchase and use of that equipment.

What you choose to use is your own personal choice - as it is mine.

There's been more than one time I've been lectured to use my seat belt, even though I already do; to use a helmet while motorcycling, even though I already do; to use an enclosed helmet instead of an open-face one while racing, even though I already do; to use a H&NR while racing, even though I already do. And each time I hear this lecture from the do-gooders - and trust me, the lecturing never ends - those who are convinced that they know what's better for me than I do, my reaction has always been...well, unpleasant. News flash: I am an adult, not a child; I understand and accept the ramifications and consequences of my actions. You are free to make your opinion known, but note that I'm not asking to take away your choices, I encourage you to do the same for me. - GA

 

[Matt Rowe]

Originally posted by mlytle@Dec 21 2005, 06:36 PM
for $15 you can have a hans recertified by the company.  that makes a used one a little more palatable.

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Well, that's the first time I've seen that. Hmm, I learn something new everyday. I am curious what their recertification involves? Ultrasonic or xray inspection? Composite inspection is still as much black art as science.

 

[mlytle]

Originally posted by Matt Rowe@Dec 22 2005, 02:05 AM
Well, that's the first time I've seen that. Hmm, I learn something new everyday. I am curious what their recertification involves? Ultrasonic or xray inspection? Composite inspection is still as much black art as science.

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topic came up on the bmw cr forum soon after the new rule came out. the big issue was that only very recently did hans devices start shipping with sfi stickers. what were all the early adopters of hans devices supposed to do? they had the exact same hans, but no sfi sticker on it. solution, send it back for inspection and (re)certification. no idea what the process is.

 

[dj10]

Originally posted by mlytle@Dec 21 2005, 10:27 PM
topic came up on the bmw cr forum soon after the new rule came out.  the big issue was that only very recently did hans devices start shipping with sfi stickers.  what were all the early adopters of hans devices supposed to do?  they had the exact same hans, but no sfi sticker on it.  solution, send it back for inspection and (re)certification.  no idea what the process is.

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Marshall, not only that but, what is the life expectency of the hans before you replace them. If you have to replace helmets every 5 years seems to me you need to replace the hans also since they are made of the same materials?

 

[JamesB]

Originally posted by dj10@Dec 22 2005, 12:10 PM
Marshall, not only that but, what is the life expectency of the hans before you replace them. If you have to replace helmets every 5 years seems to me you need to replace the hans also since they are made of the same materials?

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Mainly the reason for replacing the helmet is that your sweat and wearing it compresses the impact absobtion matieral over time making it less effective (even SNELL published that.) The Shell itself does weather over time too, but its mostly the overall construction of the helmet that most are worried about.

For the hans I dont know, if you ask me I would likely just replace the straps every time I replaced a helmet. Its a small bit to pay just like for belts that ensures it will work when you need it.

But thats my view on any of the H&N out there so you need to plan to service it to ensure its working properly.

 

[leggwork]

I believe that the recommendation is to replace the Hans tethers every 3 years.

One thing that makes me wonder about mandating hans or other SFI 38.1 device is that you generally have to install posts into your helmet. Surely this voids the helmet warranty and likely the snell certification. On the FIA site, there is a "Technical List 29" that shows which helmets are approved for use with a hans. It is interesting that groups can mandate the hans but it is ok to have a non-compliant helmet.
bruce

Originally posted by JamesB@Dec 22 2005, 04:21 PM
Mainly the reason for replacing the helmet is that your sweat and wearing it compresses the impact absobtion matieral over time making it less effective (even SNELL published that.)  The Shell itself does weather over time too, but its mostly the overall construction of the helmet that most are worried about.

For the hans I dont know, if you ask me I would likely just replace the straps every time I replaced a helmet.  Its a small bit to pay just like for belts that ensures it will work when you need it. 

But thats my view on any of the H&N out there so you need to plan to service it to ensure its working properly.

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[JamesB]

I have not read the owners manual for a HANS yet, so I didnt know they had that recommendation. I am however a sweaty person. Back when I was racing motocross and now going into club racing, I know that I am lucky to get 5 years out of a helmet even with a balaclava, so that was my basis.

 

[pgipson]

On helmets, it generally works out to every 10 years or so. Snell 95 helmets are still good this year even though Snell 05 helmets are available. I would expect that 05 helmets will be a requirement next year (along with an SFI approved H&N system?).

 

[mlytle]

Originally posted by pgipson@Dec 22 2005, 06:32 PM
On helmets, it generally works out to every 10 years or so. Snell 95 helmets are still good this year even though Snell 05 helmets are available. I would expect that 05 helmets will be a requirement next year (along with an SFI approved H&N system?).

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snell95 is only good until the end of 2005. snell00 is the oldest allowed helmet cert for 2006. (for bmwcca cr and scca)

i found that 4yrs was about the max use i got out of a helmet in active racing use. interior got, ah, worn. the chin strap started fraying. the foam definitely compressed a bit as it fit much looser.

 

[JamesB]

Actually per the GCR S95 is accepted untill 1/1/07. Probably due to the delayed release of the S05 requirements.

Effective 1/1/07, Snell SA95 helmets
will no longer be permitted (e.g. SA2000 minimum).

 

[pgipson]

Ya know, I had 2007 in my mind when I typed that drivel about helmets. It just came out "next year". See what happens when your 2006 season starts in October?

 

[JamesB]

yeah, meanwhile I dont even want to go move my car out of the hut tow it home and into the garage because its been 20 degrees out all week.

 

[dave parker]

Gentlemen
Hubbard Downing recommends that you replace the tethers for your HANS device every TWO years or whenever your are involved in a hard crash.

Hubbarrd Downing also recommends that you not leave your HANS device sitting out in direct sunlight. So don't leave your HANS and helmet sitting on top of your racecar.


cheers
"dangerous" dave parker

 

[gsbaker]

Originally posted by mlytle@Dec 22 2005, 05:22 PM
...i found that 4yrs was about the max use i got out of a helmet in active racing use.  interior got, ah, worn.  the chin strap started fraying.  the foam definitely compressed a bit as it fit much looser.

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We were chatting with several helmet folks at PRI and confirmed that, industry wide, about 25% of racers purchase a new helmet every year, so the 4 year replacement cycle is average.