Heater cores
- Thread starter 77ITA
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77ITA
New member
This is, by far, the best argument I have heard on the topic and I see where you're coming from, but it still doesn't add up.
I mean, I really don't care either way... I certainly don't have anything to gain by removing a heater core (other than simplicity) , I just don't understand why there is specific mention that it must be kept while the rest of the A/C system may be removed in whole.
It's like someone specifically thought that if you're car doesn't have a heater core in it, it belongs to a higher level of preparation (I heard that defense when I was building my last car) and that is the precise backwards thinking that we need to remove from IT.
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gran racing
Super Moderator
I really don't follow the simplicity argument. The simpliest thing is just to leave it stock.
For A/C, maybe part of the reasoning for allowing it to be removed is that some cars on the same spec line came with A/C just as an option. All came with heaters.
lateapex911
Super Moderator
That's the one...was gridded 8th of about 22. when the skys opened on grid, they said, "% minutes to get back here if you want to change tires". Acck. I git back in 4.5 minutes, thanks to the help of the entire Blethen crew, and A Shepard or two, I think.
The Integra and CRX boys either ran in their trailers wide eyed, or slipped off.
I was able to get around 4 guys in the banking (first turn) then made a pass for the lead on lap 2 or 3. Oddly, the lap chart shows that on some laps I was 8 seconds faster than the next fastest car. Not oddly, each lap had two "Oh s8it! I just threw this thing away, what an idiot!" moments, where the car was sliding with little helm, but each time I got it back. After a few, I learned to expect it, and adjusted my line to slide where I wanted to be on the other side. Of course, visibility to the rear was less than perfect, but by halfway I figured out that I had a pretty decent lead, and slowed down.
Of course, I am a swimmer, and dirt stockers rule! But I got lucky and managed to herd it the distance. Windshield was 80% clear, but there was 2" of water on the floor sloshing about. If there were any field mice hiding in the car, they could have broken out there little surfboards and hung 10. (or however many they have)
shwah
New member
David - I use heated air. My car never had AC, and warm air has more capacity to absorb water than cool air. Of course drying the air by cooling it down and precipitating out the water first will work even better, but all else equal, warm air blowing on a foggy windshield is better than ambient or no air blowing on it.
To the topic in general - my impression of this thread is that some folks think that 'real race cars' just don't have heater cores. My counter argument - 'real IT cars have working heaters'
To the topic in general - my impression of this thread is that some folks think that 'real race cars' just don't have heater cores. My counter argument - 'real IT cars have working heaters'
77ITA
New member
When building a car from a bare chassis up, that doesn't really apply... but I digress; laziness is not what I am talking about here.
Some cars, are not as simple as two radiator hoses and two heater hoses. For example, here is a diagram of the coolant hose routing on the S2000. There is quite a bit of excess junk there that is associated directly with the heater core. It would obviously be more simple to not have that, but again.. my goal here isn't a rule change, rather to understand why the rule directs me that I need to keep all that junk.
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lateapex911
Super Moderator
LOL, Chris, my counter is, "Why would you want to do something to add more work, and help you lose a winnable race? " I guess if you're winning all the time, who cares, don't race in the rain. But that's too NASCAR for me. 
Oh, one other idea as to the reason, when IT was first conceived, it was a "dual purpose" class. Cars needed to maintain certain things, that made them street capable. My first car in the mid 90s got driven all over New England to races on race tires, and race springs and shocks, packed to the gills with a tent and tools and spares.
Oh, one other idea as to the reason, when IT was first conceived, it was a "dual purpose" class. Cars needed to maintain certain things, that made them street capable. My first car in the mid 90s got driven all over New England to races on race tires, and race springs and shocks, packed to the gills with a tent and tools and spares.
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JeffYoung
New member
We learned to never race the Z in the rain. A) you get wet, B ) backmarkers hit you while you're lapping them, C) even with a working heater core the windshield fogs up, D) its hard to shift with one hand on the wheel and one hand holding the stick with the rag on the end of it to wipe the aforementioned fogged windshield, and most important: E) Z's don't need any more encouragement to rust. 
Back in the day, when the rules were still very "regional", we tried the ole "the heater conditions the air, therefore the heater core is part of the air conditioning system" argument. The Z factory service manual even referred to the heater stuff as "conditioning the air". Won the race on the track, lost it in the tech shed. Oh well, wasn't the first time....
Back in the day, when the rules were still very "regional", we tried the ole "the heater conditions the air, therefore the heater core is part of the air conditioning system" argument. The Z factory service manual even referred to the heater stuff as "conditioning the air". Won the race on the track, lost it in the tech shed. Oh well, wasn't the first time....
betamotorsports
New member
E) subset - The water splashing up into your crotch from the rust holes in the floor board makes you have to pee all the time.
GBugg
New member
Wow. Based on your avitar, I wouldn't have guessed you were that big. You obviously carry your weight high.
:026::026::026:
lateapex911
Super Moderator
Good point, LOl. I tossed that avatar up as a test (and a joke, kinda) when the board switched to new software and some people were having difficulty with their avatars...
I suppose I should get serious and put something proper in, but it's been pretty popular....
I suppose I should get serious and put something proper in, but it's been pretty popular....
JeffYoung
New member
Quit complaining and do something about it: Submit your request that the allowance to remove AC be rescinded and the ITAC will give it their full consideration.
K
:026:
Hah!
In all seriousness, there's no argument for keeping the heater core that hasn't already been made, here and elsewhere. But it's not about that. It's about the fact that everyone can make exactly the same potentially compelling argument about 1000 other modifications from stock that are not currently allowed by the IT rule set.
Are you willing to strike a bargain? That you'll support every other proposal made with the same rationale - simplicity, safety, cost savings, and "no increase in performance" - if we give you yours?
K
Hah!
In all seriousness, there's no argument for keeping the heater core that hasn't already been made, here and elsewhere. But it's not about that. It's about the fact that everyone can make exactly the same potentially compelling argument about 1000 other modifications from stock that are not currently allowed by the IT rule set.
Are you willing to strike a bargain? That you'll support every other proposal made with the same rationale - simplicity, safety, cost savings, and "no increase in performance" - if we give you yours?
K
77ITA
New member
as I've stated multiple times, I'm not here seeking a rule change. This would obviously be the wrong place for that and I would probably be less of an a**hole about it.
I'm just sharing my point of view and questions while creating conversation and debate on the subject. Isn't that what a forum like this is for?
I'm just sharing my point of view and questions while creating conversation and debate on the subject. Isn't that what a forum like this is for?
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planet6racing
New member
Why has every argument lately had the S2000 in it? We need XXX because of the S2000... etc. etc.
It's been long established that some cars do not make good IT cars or racecars in general. That's just the way it is. I didn't do my full homework up front and I race a Saturn. However, I'm not asking for any special allowances. I'm just glad I have the OPPORTUNITY to develop creative solutions...