How would you handle this?

In defense of the student. I am 99.99999% (ok 100%) sure that my student had no idea and was not part of this. My student was trying very hard to learn and was taken advantage of. In fact I agree that the entrant does owe something. An apoligy to my student.

I know that this isn't ended yet and I will do everything I can to make sure lessons are learned and the situation never comes up again.

I also know that if anyone has a good solid IT7 for sale, I have a student that wants it and wants to race.

So all in all, what started as a bad situation that could have turned worse became a positive for my student and we will have another IT7 driver soon. After all, we're a family and we watch out for each other.

BTW: Jim, ain't gonna happen, no way, no how !!! However I do know of a certian red, white and blue IT7 that I'm gonna drive a circle around next time just for fun.

Mike
 
Not so hypothetical, then?

The student bears his own set of blame in this situation. If he didn't read the rules well enough to be able to identify a legal helmet without counting on the tech inspectors, then he made a bad choice.

This is a great example of why being a member for only a short time before getting in a race seat is a bad idea.

K
 
Originally posted by Mike Cox:
I also know that if anyone has a good solid IT7 for sale, I have a student that wants it and wants to race.
Click to expand...

I know of one Mike.

Write to me at [email protected]

I'll put you in touch with the owner.


------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[This message has been edited by Geo (edited April 07, 2004).]
 
Originally posted by lateapex911:
The owner/renter demonstrated forethought, malicious disregard for anothers safety, and he knowingly and intentionally intended to put SCCA itself at risk. All for what, $500 bucks?
Minimum one years suspension/expulsion from attending and/or participating in any SCCA event. It's all about the attitude.
Click to expand...

I'd agree with this one. I think I'd include some mandatory time helping tech as penance to get back in.

This past weekend's fatality just underscores what is at stake here. If something happened to that student as a result of improper safety gear it would have been criminal IMHO.


------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
 
Mike, Ray, et al.
As you know, at one time, I was a renter/entrant to many SCCA events. I was appalled to see that something like this could happen. I have two important points to add to this discussion.
1. The student in question should have been much more aware of what was happening with the car she was using on the track. Part of the learning process is being aware of any and all changes being made to the car before going out on track, be it mechanical or safety changes. If the driver cannot be present for the work, that driver's responsibility to his/herself is to ask what was done to the car, do a cursory checkover to see what visual changes were made and be aware of what these changes can do. This puts the driver more in tune with his/her vehicle and thus is more aware of what can go right or wrong with the car while out on the track. Ray, with your many years of experience with Dad, me, and your's and Stephen's racing, you know that being aware what changes are made has made all the difference in making good changes work or bad changes disasters. A good, aggressive, safe racer knows his/her car and all the equipment involved and thus can make informed decisions when out on the track.
2. No driver should rent a car without a legal contract that covers both the driver and entrant/renter for anything that could go wrong. A good/legal contract covers the driver for incidences such as the one you wrote about and the entrant/renter for damages resulting in the driver's use.

As for the entrant, he should be heavily fined and basically, "hung" for what he pulled. He not only jeopardized his driver, but if something HAD happened while that driver was in the car, he could have opened a can of worms that amateur racing could not or would have been able to afford in future events. The legal ramifications that could have arisen out of this could have ruined racing for years to come.
The responsibility also goes to grid on this one. Y-belts were outlawed in SCCA back in the 80's and grid personnel are supposed to do a cursory check of every vehicle before they leave grid. Belts are all to visible to have overlooked that Y-belts were in that car. This should have been reported to the stewards and that car should have been impounded immediately. AND the helmet should have had a visible sticker that it passed tech (they still are doing that, aren't they?). Grid should have picked up on that as well. As for the driver's suit, I can excuse that as long as the suit didn't interfere with her hands and feet when driving.
I can contact the attorney that drew up the contract I used when I rented the S2 and see if he still has a draft on file if anyone is interested in seeing a good contract.
Ray, you are right, safety is the most important part of prep.
Trish

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RST's Biggest Fan
 
Trish,

The way I read it, the person renting the car, presented a 'valid' helmet to tech. They then took the issued sticker and placed it on a different helmet, that did not comply w/ the rules.

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608
 
I agree with you. That did NOT comply with the rules. But I still think that the driver should have also been able to catch this as the driver IS responsible for being sure that he/she has the appropriate equipment to drive. I may be out in left field with that, but I honestly believe the driver should also be responsible as well.
Trish
 
Trish,

I spoke to this student last night and the facts are this. The "renter" committed fraud. He used the same helmet to tech in 2 cars. (one car for his son and one car for the student)

The student in question joined SCCA in March and 3 to 4 weeks later was in the driver's school.

The "renter" has a history of these kinds of actions before (in regards to safety) and I made sure the car and the driver were safe before the car went on the track.

While the student does have the responsibility to know the rules, the renter has the responsiblity to ensure the students safety, not the instructor.

The stewards and tech people were informed immediately of the situation I encountered and were informed of the steps I took to ensure the safety of the student. Both the tech and the steward were satisfied with the steps I took and in an effort to not "rock the boat" and piss off the "renter" the car was allowed to complete te drivers school.

By pissing off the "renter" he could have and probably would have loaded the car and left and that would have left the student out.

A young impressionable female student being taken advantage of by a "renter" is what we have here.

I can assure you that this car in question may go back on the track but I have enough items on my list that it will be protested for numerous voilations of the GCR. (including but not limited to: front splitter pretruding past the vertical line on the front bumper by +/- 2", fire bottle (hand held) secured with a 1/2" wide wire tie, headlights removed, headlight doors covered and secured with sheet metal)

Shall I go on?

The car is blatantly illegal and their are 2 ways to deal with it. 1.the tech people have assured me that the car will be reteched at the next race included a complete redo of the annual tech and pulling the log book if the car doesn't pass. 2. the competitors in IT7 sending a message to the driver the (through a protest) that he either cleans up his act or don't come back.

(and no, this is not a way for me to eliminate my competition, he's 10 seconds a lap slower than me on the long course at Sebring)

This is how we all need to work together to ensure our safety and continue to grow the sport we all love.

If it takes this, then so be it but I'm sick and tired of cheaters in IT7 and sick of people who take advantage of others for the almighty dollar.

BTW: I don't kow if he reads the posts on this website but if he does, this message is for him:
My name isn't Al, it's Mike Cox. I am a 2 time IT7 champion in Central Florida Region and 2nd place finisher in IT7 in this region championship twice and 2 time Citrus Endurance Champion in IT7 in this region. You will get to know my name from now on as it will be the one on the protest forms.
 
Way to go Al!! Or is it Mike....I agree with everything you plan on doing. Too bad my GT1 doesn't run with IT7. I could also keep an eye on him for you. How is the search for your students new ride doing?
Andy Fox
 
Mike:

If you need any help with the protest fees, let me know. I'll chip in.

------------------
Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com
 
Good for you, Mike. Too many "renters" DO get away with this type of stuff....they have for years. AND they love to take advantage of the "poor little girl". It's refreshing to see that you are taking the hard line approach. Good luck.
 
I can't do any of it without the love and support of my lovely wife of 22 years, Alana. She was madder than me at the driver's school and I'll tell you this much, she sees things I never thought she saw. She'll come on the radio while I'm driving and ask me why I missed the apex in a corner and tell me to try a later turn in point on a corner. Amazing what she sees.

She saw things my student was doing that I didn't see and is always helpful and concerned about the other drivers. Guess that's why they all call her "mom" now.
 
She sounds like an awesome lady. You are one lucky guy!
smile.gif
 
Dan, I mean Dave

I always say yes ma'am and no ma'am to her. She's my financial advisor. In other words she dosen't let me spend all my money on the car. I have to buy her flowers once in a while. of course the next flowers she gets should come from someone else who lives in Orlando and stays in our motorhome all the time. hint hint.

Call me soon
 
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