IT National Racing

Andy,
I like the idea, and think it could work...I remember a similar plan/discussion in 2006 about the Runoffs having to many classes and the possibility that the 18 best subscribed classes would go.

Kevin, well done at the Glen...

JZ
 
Russ Myers said:
they always taught us in drivers school that we were to hold our line and the fast cars were suppose to pass us backmarkers safely. so I hold the line and a ssm miata puts me in the wall at VIR. it ain't that the backmarkers won't get out of the way, it's the feeling by the fast guys that it's their God given right to the whole track and that if I ain't fast, I just shouldn't be out there interfering with there race.

Russ
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I've always disagreed with the "hold your line ALL the time and let them get around you" thought process. More importantly is to be predictable.

There is an art to being passed and I learned that in my early years of being lapped by half the field. When you have the leaders comin' round, and they're in a dog fight for the win (or championship) their main goal is to get around you without losing any time or getting balked up. They WILL stick their nose in, they WILL dive bomb you, they WILL try to pass you on the outside, they WILL try to use you as a pick.

Be prepared for all that.

Not saying that it's right, just reality...............
 
Andy Bettencourt said:
Sure it does. Everyone gets to race, even when IT gets to go.
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...but what about all those poor drivers whose current National sacred cow classes will have to compete with IT for entrees and RubOffs berths...? Unless the current National stalwarts support an idea, it won't happen.

K
 
For IT to be included in the National program the folks in IT need to buy in and voice their opinions....in numbers for things to change...and classes like ITS, ITA and ITB each could produce 40 car fields.

With more entries....comes more dollars, more manufacturer interest, and eases cooperation from the track and surrounding community....all big factors of the Runoffs, which was a large profit maker for the club. Classes with 8 cars....don't do that.

Just like engines....Simply Cubic Dollars.

JZ
 
Knestis said:
...but what about all those poor drivers whose current National sacred cow classes will have to compete with IT for entrees and RubOffs berths...? Unless the current National stalwarts support an idea, it won't happen.

K
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But in my scenario, everyone who meets minimums gets a birth, they just may have to share a track.
 
I like Andy's idea. With one addition. I do not know if I am that keen on letting every driver who completes the school requirements enter the 'Championship Qualifying Events'. Perhaps change the GCR to stipulate that Novice Permit holders complete 4 races without incident before granting a full competition license and then be able to enter the events that qualify you for the runoffs. One should not be able to go directly from school to the runoffs (except for waivers for prior experience).
 
Andy Bettencourt said:
But in my scenario, everyone who meets minimums gets a birth, they just may have to share a track.
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"Don't you know who I am? I've been running Nationals for years and am a multi-time champion, and you tell me my class is going to have to run in a MIXED GROUP so the jalopies can have their own race? I've got Directors on speed dial dammit...!!"
 
Flyinglizard said:
After taking 10yrs to do away with the VIn rule for IT, how long would this take??
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Not picking on you specifically, but....sorta... :D

How many letters did you write requesting it?
How many of your friends did the same?
Was there EVER a concerted effort to do away with the VIN rule, or was it onesy-twosy stuff with guys writing in for specific requests based on what's in their garage and not bigger-picture requests?

I've been around the club long enough to be jaded and appreciate the "how long would this take" path, but I've also been around long enough and involved at enough levels to understand that sometimes stuff doesn't happen because no one (or not enough people) ask for it, or people ask for it the wrong way.

For better or worse, there is an art to it.
 
Knestis said:
"Don't you know who I am? I've been running Nationals for years and am a multi-time champion, and you tell me my class is going to have to run in a MIXED GROUP so the jalopies can have their own race? I've got Directors on speed dial dammit...!!"
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Good for you sir - but 1. you must not have seen the IT paddock yet because the prep level exceeds about 75% of the Prod cars at this event and 2. they averaged 300% more entries than you did. Next question.
 
Andy Bettencourt said:
Good for you sir - but 1. you must not have seen the IT paddock yet because the prep level exceeds about 75% of the Prod cars at this event and 2. they averaged 300% more entries than you did. Next question.
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"What about the FACT that IT drivers are barely better than demolition derby lunatics, crashing into each other every chance they get...? No NATIONAL class driver would willingly be on the same track with them, if your ill-advised multi-class group idea were to happen. And if they DID get their own group - there's no accounting for the massed idiot hordes - they will be an embarrassment to the SCCA, ruining any chance of future TV coverage."

K
 
Knestis said:
"What about the FACT that IT drivers are barely better than demolition derby lunatics, crashing into each other every chance they get...? No NATIONAL class driver would willingly be on the same track with them, if your ill-advised multi-class group idea were to happen. And if they DID get their own group - there's no accounting for the massed idiot hordes - they will be an embarrassment to the SCCA, ruining any chance of future TV coverage."

K
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LMAO, this is fun.

1. That would make for better TV than the 3 second fast-lap differential in the top 5 of every Prod class...

(EP: 3 second differential in TOP 3!...FP: 5 second differential TOP 5...HP: 6 seconds TOP 5... MUST BE AWESOME RACING!!!!)

2. That statement immediatley takes your ill-informed opinion out of the running for consideration!
 
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JIgou said:
I've been around the club long enough to be jaded and appreciate the "how long would this take" path, but I've also been around long enough and involved at enough levels to understand that sometimes stuff doesn't happen because no one (or not enough people) ask for it,
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Again, the key is that IT racers combine to write a clear, concise letter copying both the BOD, their Area Director and whomever they seem to think "matters". Large numbers...of "customers" banded together...matter. Possibly, one draft letter could be written, reviewed by a few key folks, and then forwarded or posted here to others then be forwarded individually to club officials.

JZ
 
What would be the probablilty of IT going National by attrition? Will the 2.5 rule eventually knock enough classes out of Runoffs eligibility that the CRB will finally come to IT to fill in the holes?

I believe that we need to be careful what we ask for. The guys that run in the National classes are spending way more money than most IT racers. If all of a sudden they can run in IT in the Runoffs, a lot of those guys will start spending cubic dollars on IT cars, and it will get a whole lot tougher to have a front running car if you are a Regional only type racer. That's going to discourage a lot of guys racing now, and also discourage others thinking about getting into racing.
 
240zdave said:
I believe that we need to be careful what we ask for. The guys that run in the National classes are spending way more money than most IT racers. If all of a sudden they can run in IT in the Runoffs, a lot of those guys will start spending cubic dollars on IT cars, and it will get a whole lot tougher to have a front running car if you are a Regional only type racer. That's going to discourage a lot of guys racing now, and also discourage others thinking about getting into racing.
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So this is one of the commonly used arguements over the years. Fact: In some areas, money is no object now. Fact: There is nothing stopping cubic dollars from enertering your class now.

If IT is a better place for these racers, so be it. What COULD happen, is that they DO migrate, some other classes die off and we see fuller fields with better racing across the board. And remember, there will still be NQ's and regular Regionals for drivers to choose from if they want to pick the pool of drivers to race against. In fact, Regional races in IT might actually get EASIER in some areas for the middle pack as the 'cubic dollar' crowd moves out. If you believe dollars are the major contributor to wins.
 
Send me a PM if you want to work on drafting a Letter, people can obviously send a letter in their own voice, but this may help some folks out ?
 
Not to be a killjoy, but didn't we JUST go through this? IIRC, there was a strategic study, and the advisors suggested IT going National. Didn't they get support from IT guys??* I think they did. And.................
The PTB didn't like it.

or am I hallucinating?

* over the years I've run polls or started threads about this, and it's always been hotly contested, but, in general, the trend is that more and more IT guys think it's not such a bad idea. I'd say that 5 years ago, it was 40% for, 60% against. A couple years ago, I'd say that flipped, or was 55 for 45 against.
 
240zdave said:
What would be the probablilty of IT going National by attrition? Will the 2.5 rule eventually knock enough classes out of Runoffs eligibility that the CRB will finally come to IT to fill in the holes?

I believe that we need to be careful what we ask for. The guys that run in the National classes are spending way more money than most IT racers. If all of a sudden they can run in IT in the Runoffs, a lot of those guys will start spending cubic dollars on IT cars, and it will get a whole lot tougher to have a front running car if you are a Regional only type racer. That's going to discourage a lot of guys racing now, and also discourage others thinking about getting into racing.
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Ok, if they are, WHY? HOW?

A major cost that a lot of National guys encounter is travel costs. It's not like you can just do your qualifying in a few events at your local track. And traveling costs a lot.

And, other than that, I'd say that statement is debateable. I bet I can borrow a buddies E Prod car, and qualify for the Runoffs. And I won't spend that much. Now, I'll GO the the Runoffs, but, lets face it, I won't win.

If we gathered all the IT guys who race now, and told them 'meet here for the National championship race", do you think it would be cheap to win??

Locally, in just ITR/ITS, I bet there are a bunch of builds that are over $50~75K in. I won't list who and how much, but....Andy, you concur?
 
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