ITR New Cars and Class Cleanup

For comparison the E46 328/330 cars were at 2875# and the RX8 at 2650# in Grand Am. Close racing everywhere. You have enough data with these cars in their same prep to make a good decision.
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So these cars are all close in Grand-Am?
E46 328 at 2875 lbs
E46 330 at 2875 lbs
Rx8 at 2650 lbs

Now in ITR
E46 328 at 2900 lbs
E46 330 at 3290 lbs
Rx8 at ??

Using 'Steve math' either the 328 should also be 3290 (and the Rx8 ~3050), or the Rx8 should be ~2700 and the 330 down to 2900. I think I'll keep the process, which as far as I know agrees with 'Grafton math'.
 
So these cars are all close in Grand-Am?
E46 328 at 2875 lbs
E46 330 at 2875 lbs
Rx8 at 2650 lbs

Now in ITR
E46 328 at 2900 lbs
E46 330 at 3290 lbs
Rx8 at ??

Using 'Steve math' either the 328 should also be 3290 (and the Rx8 ~3050), or the Rx8 should be ~2700 and the 330 down to 2900. I think I'll keep the process, which as far as I know agrees with 'Grafton math'.
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What are you proposing the RX8's weight should be? Why is the 328 & 330 weight the same in Grand AM? I believe there is a difference, althought not a lot, in hp & torque.



Steve, seems like your getting to frustrated over this, calm down pal. :D I think the ITAC has enough time and data to get this right. Didn't they get the restrictor right on the BMW 325 for ITS, in time? :D ;)
 
Why don't we cut to the chase.

The real issue here is what is a stock RX8's correct hp since that is what the process uses to set weight. Grafton is going with the corrected factory number; stock dyno plots show the number to be even lower.

ITAC how do we resolve this?

Also, Steve E. --- you're a good friend of mine, and I want it to stay that way. But Grafton didn't get the dyno sheets improperly. He asked for them, I gave them to him and I thought it was ok for me to do so. If there is any fault, it's mine. I disagree with his analysis, but he didn't do anything untoward in collecting information.
 
This is calm Dan. :D It is not that big a deal. I do get frustrated when someone is twisting the numbers in their favor knowing full well they are bogus. I just consider the source. Brings back memories of the ITS E36 debates. I have 5 different cars to race now Dan so the tub can go on ebay if the ITAC screws the pooch on this one. As I said in a post before, I trust cooler heads to do the right thing. I am selling my ITS car and would like to still have an IT car to race because I like the competition and the people I run with. I have no wish to switch brands so I am working to keep Mazda available for IT. Real simple.

And Jeff Young: If I got mad at my friends every time they did something I didn't agree with I wouldnt have any. :birra:
 
This is calm Dan. :D It is not that big a deal. I do get frustrated when someone is twisting the numbers in their favor knowing full well they are bogus. I just consider the source. Brings back memories of the ITS E36 debates. I have 5 different cars to race now Dan so the tub can go on ebay if the ITAC screws the pooch on this one. As I said in a post before, I trust cooler heads to do the right thing. I am selling my ITS car and would like to still have an IT car to race because I like the competition and the people I run with. I have no wish to switch brands so I am working to keep Mazda available for IT. Real simple.

And Jeff Young: If I got mad at my friends every time they did something I didn't agree with I wouldnt have any. :birra: [/b]
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Ahhhh great attitude Steve. I have faith in the ITAC too. I hate to say it but if I knew Mazda Motorsports had interest in grassroots racing, I might be racing one myself. The way I see it, BMW could care less what we accomplish at this level and we can't get anything off our parts from a dealer with out them raising the retail price up like some Porsche dealers do!
 
BMW could care less what we accomplish at this level and we can't get anything off our parts from a dealer with out them raising the retail price up like some Porsche dealers do!
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A BMWCCA membership ($40 a year) is worth 15% off at the parts counter. And unlike the SCCA, their magazine is worth the paper it's printed on...
 
A BMWCCA membership ($40 a year) is worth 15% off at the parts counter. And unlike the SCCA, their magazine is worth the paper it's printed on...
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unfortunately, that discount varies and is usually off the dealers list price, which is unfortunately above bmw list by 10-15% already. dj is correct, bmwna could care less about racing.

but bmwcca membership is worth it for a bunch of other reasons....particulary racing in bmwcca club racing series!
 
unfortunately, that discount varies and is usually off the dealers list price, which is unfortunately above bmw list by 10-15% already.
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Really? I buy parts from a variety of dealers on a daily basis and have never noticed inconsistent list prices.
 
Really? I buy parts from a variety of dealers on a daily basis and have never noticed inconsistent list prices. [/b]
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Guys, BMW parts are marked up 40% to 60%. Madza motorsports are discounted 40%, what's this tell you. Just because you haven't seen this in your area doesn't doesn't mean it's not happening else where on a regular basis. Isn't Autotech a business?
 
The standard increase estimate is 25%. There are cars out there as high as 50% (12A RX-7) and cars out there as low as 15% (S2000).

The ITAC will recommend based on what we know as fact or the standard amount, not what 'looks right'.
 
Just a side note. The process uses the multiplier in a categorical fashion whenever possible. ie. a rotary is a different multiplier than an old 2 valve or a new 4 valve....

Where it is well documented, there can be adjustments for issues like incorrect stock hp ratings, but those are rare.
 
Really? I buy parts from a variety of dealers on a daily basis and have never noticed inconsistent list prices.
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washington dc area has about a dozen bmw dealers. all mark up significantly at varying rates. not all offer any bmwcca discounts. i rarely buy from dealers unless it is an odd part i can't get elsewhere.
 
washington dc area has about a dozen bmw dealers. all mark up significantly at varying rates. not all offer any bmwcca discounts. i rarely buy from dealers unless it is an odd part i can't get elsewhere.
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Right, but list price is fixed nationwide. What dealers charge above or below list is up to them.

Thats all I was trying to say.
 
I know there has been some discussion regarding the Z4 being classed in ITR. I was wondering which model would have the potential for being classified, 2.5 or 3.0? or perhaps both like the 3 series?

Thanks,
Nathan
 
Both would have the capability to be in ITR as they fit the hp specs the class was designed to capture. The 2.5L at 192hp would be a good fit and the 3L at 230hp would also be a good fit.

Ron
 
3L Curb Weight was listed by BMW at 3108 lbs. Probably is going to have to carry a bit of weight for sure, but, you won't have to worry so much about making weight. Build a fantastic cage, nice seat, Cool Suit, blowers, the whole 9 yards of driver comfort stuff to keep the weight in there.

Ron
 
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